The Remodeler Digital Playbook Podcast

Marketing Efforts to Keep Clients Satisfied with Dennis Gehman

• Rathna Ramakrishnan • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this episode of the Remodeler Digital Playbook Podcast, Dennis Gehman, owner of Game and Design Remodeling, shares insights into his business philosophy, the evolution of the remodeling industry, and the importance of design in projects. He discusses the challenges he enjoys in remodeling, his marketing strategies, and how he builds trust with clients. 

He also offers valuable advice for homeowners considering remodeling and reflects on his aspirations for the future of his company as he approaches retirement.

📌 KEY MOMENTS:

- 04:39: Evolution of the Remodeling Industry
- 09:30: Marketing Strategies for Remodeling Businesses
- 12:45: Building Client Relationships and Trust
- 28:29: Technology and Tools in Remodeling
- 34:39: Keys to Longevity in Business
- 46:19: Financial Awareness for New Remodelers

🌟 What You'll Learn:
- ACTIONABLE TIPS to maintaining long-term relationships with clients.
- INSIGHTS into overcoming obstacles and the keys to maintaining a successful business over the years.

🔨 Essential listening for remodeling contractors seeking to advance their digital marketing strategies.

🎧 Tune in now to transform your approach to digital marketing!

Ready to see real results from fellow General Contractors?

→ Step 1: Join our FREE Digital Dominance Club for Remodeling Contractors

→ Step 2: Follow us on Instagram

→ Step 3: Schedule a 1:1 call with Rathna now!

Let's rock your remodeling journey! 🛠️💰

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (00:01.492)
Hello everyone, I am excited to have Dennis here today. Dennis, will you please introduce yourself? Tell us your name, the name of your business, how long you've been in business, and if you're comfortable, please share your revenue numbers so we have an idea of how large of a contractor you are.

Dennis Gehman (00:22.378)
My name is Dennis Gehman.

Our business is Game and Design Remodeling. We're located in Harleysville, Pennsylvania, which is southeastern. We're a little less than an hour north of Philadelphia. We started in business in 1990. I'm a carpenter by trade initially and had worked for other contractors and decided to scratch this entrepreneurial itch that I had and start our business. God has blessed us 33 years now in business.

There's 24 team members as part of our company. Last year we did 4.2 million, we're on track for about 4.5 million this year.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (01:05.172)
Congratulations, thank you for sharing that. So I was reading about your business and one of the things that stands out is your commitment to one project at a time. Can you discuss this philosophy and what is the approach and the benefits behind this one project at a time?

Dennis Gehman (01:07.854)
Sure, thank you.

Dennis Gehman (01:24.899)
Well.

That's maybe not quite true. We commit that, because we actually have five or six projects going at any one time, but we assign a project manager to a project when they start and we commit that they will be there each work day, start to finish of the project. A project manager for us, we use the term a little different than many other people do. They are working tradesmen, they have their tools on.

and they're responsible for all the work. Many times there are other tradespeople working there with them. We're just wrapping up a bathroom that there really was just only room for one person. It was a small space. And so we were fortunate that all of our project managers can do a bathroom or kitchen start to finish by themselves if they have to.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (02:21.748)
Wow. So it's fair to say that you have multiple projects going, but every customer is going to feel, experience that one project at a time, because they have that dedicated project advisor. So that's excellent. Oh.

Dennis Gehman (02:34.863)
Correct. Yes.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (02:41.804)
So your LinkedIn showcases a deep rooted connection with the remodeling industry. How has the remodeling landscape changed since you started decades ago?

Dennis Gehman (02:55.214)
Well, probably to start off as a video recording like this, we certainly did not have that kind of thing.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (03:03.043)
Yeah?

Dennis Gehman (03:05.182)
Yeah, when I first started, I don't even know that the term remodeling, it wasn't something that I was familiar with. It was home improvements. And, you know, so that was a change. To me, remodeling sounds maybe a bit more professional. Some people use the word renovation. I don't think

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (03:15.333)
I see.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (03:30.106)
Mm-hmm.

Dennis Gehman (03:35.236)
has become more professional. Many people began their businesses just like I did. I was a tradesman. I quickly learned that while I knew the trade and I could build and remodel most things, I really needed to learn a lot on the business side of things. And so that was the reason why I joined

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (03:37.312)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (03:53.748)
Alright, right.

Dennis Gehman (04:05.896)
a group of contractors in our area that were starting a new chapter. And so I became a charter member of the Buxmont chapter for Buxom Montgomery County here back in 1992. And I've learned a lot. Much of it was from classes that NARY offered, but also a whole lot just from other people as I've made friends. Many of them are competitors,

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (04:30.781)
Absolutely.

Dennis Gehman (04:34.896)
for one another and we help each other out. Thank you.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (04:39.804)
Very cool. So how many contractors are in your chapter membership?

Dennis Gehman (04:45.582)
I think our chapter is just under 100 right now.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (04:48.724)
Very nice, cool. So your website also speaks about design in the remodeling process. So why do you believe this component is so vital and how does it set your projects apart? Do you have a design and build process that you use or?

Dennis Gehman (04:58.058)
Yes.

Dennis Gehman (05:11.446)
Yeah, so it's interesting from little on up, I decided I wanted to be a carpenter. And in middle school and as I started into high school, I had decided that I'd like to go to the Votek school for carpentry.

And I applied for that and I don't remember the reason why, but I was not accepted into carpentry and they recommended that I would do architectural drafting, which I did. And I'm glad that I did, but after graduating from high school, I wasn't at that point ready to sit behind a desk and do drafting. I wanted to do carpentry and was fortunate enough to get a job

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (05:42.3)
Excellent.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (05:50.228)
Ha ha ha.

Dennis Gehman (06:00.032)
crew initially and as we worked you know as I worked for other contractors some of them did some design build maybe especially on smaller projects but I would do little things on the side for friends or family and I would usually draw up what was necessary and then that seemed it would have been 1988

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (06:24.571)
Mm-hmm.

Dennis Gehman (06:29.712)
drew plans for a new house for our family. And I built that. And then we moved in, in the spring of 1989. And that, doing that really got a lot of people calling me. And you know, I think they basically thought, well, Dennis could build a nice house. Maybe he could do this or that for me. And so it opened the doors for me to begin our business.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (06:56.916)
Very cool. So do you still live in that home or have you moved on? Nice.

Dennis Gehman (07:02.156)
We still live in the same place. No, we still live there. It's been remodeled several times. That's true. I think we should be able to do that.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (07:07.109)
I can imagine, yeah. Your company has an impressive range of portfolio, from kitchens to baths to additions. Is there a particular type of project you find most rewarding, and if so, why?

Dennis Gehman (07:23.506)
I find projects that have a challenge to them most rewarding. And that might be a kitchen where they want to open up the first floor. So we're taking out the load bearing wall and handling the structural elements. Since we also do our own plumbing and electric, we gotta find new homes for the utilities that were in that wall also and figuring out how to do that.

And sometimes it's on the design side of things. You know, people, they have this kitchen and it has five doorways coming into it and it just can't get any flow. You know, so to talk that through and come up with a plan that's going to work. I remember one project where the husband was extra tall and his wife was maybe let's say extra short.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (08:21.509)
Uh huh.

Dennis Gehman (08:23.3)
common ground as far as countertop height and cabinets and those kinds of things. Sometimes we need to be a bit of a counselor in helping people talk through these things and I often tell people I think especially when we're beginning design the best thing that we can do is to ask them a lot of questions and to be good listeners. Many people that they don't quite know how they have an image

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (08:33.499)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (08:47.987)
Right.

Dennis Gehman (08:53.5)
something they like but they don't know how to describe it. And so by us asking questions, showing them pictures, you know, are you thinking something like this, hopefully we can get to a point where that they agree and you know then we can move forward.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (08:56.596)
Mm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (09:10.864)
Excellent. That's such a cool answer. So you like projects with challenges. Just makes it interesting for you. And so it doesn't matter whether it's a bathroom or a kitchen or an addition, as long as it's a fun project that involves design and that really makes a meaningful impact to the family. You enjoy those projects. Wonderful.

Dennis Gehman (09:27.306)
Yes, that's right.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (09:30.432)
So let's switch gears here and talk about one of my favorite topics, which is marketing. So what types of marketing do you do for your brand today? What do you have in your marketing toolbox?

Dennis Gehman (09:43.022)
So we are fortunate, I think it's about 12 years now, my son-in-law actually is our marketing director. And he graduated college with a marketing degree and was working somewhere else. And then a few years after they got married, we were talking about it. And so he decided to join us. And so Travis focuses on that. We certainly have a website. And so a lot of our marketing is trying to direct people

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (09:51.785)
Nice.

Dennis Gehman (10:13.016)
websites so they can get to know us a bit better in that way. Social media, we certainly do. Primarily Facebook, some Google Ads. Once in a while, we're on Howes or Pinterest, Instagram. Not a whole, whole lot with those things. But try to get conversations. Put out there pictures, maybe two pictures. Do you like this or that?

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (10:16.364)
Ahem.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (10:23.521)
Pfft

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (10:43.242)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (10:43.996)
and let people comment and begin a conversation with us on that. We do some print media, a couple, two local kind of home and garden magazines that seem to do well for us. Yard signs, we have a dozen trucks out there on the road and each one of them has our name on.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (10:48.665)
Nice.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (11:00.104)
Nice.

Dennis Gehman (11:12.896)
fans and so we have a big picture of a kitchen or an addition or something on the side so it's a rolling billboard.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (11:21.12)
Those look cool, yeah. So which of these efforts do you think generates your best quality leads when you think about Google Ads and Facebook Ads and organic social media efforts?

Dennis Gehman (11:35.558)
So one that I didn't mention was staying connected with our existing client base. And we, I think all those ways that I already mentioned, our clients are seeing us from time to time, so that helps. But we do email marketing, a monthly email newsletter that goes to everybody whose email address we have. And so that certainly helps. We have a five-year warranty for our project.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (11:41.182)
Nice.

Dennis Gehman (12:05.112)
So it would be best if we didn't have any warranty calls, but they happen from time to time. To me, that's some of our best.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (12:13.292)
course sure.

Dennis Gehman (12:17.366)
marketing dollars, so to speak, when we respond timely to a concern and we don't argue and say, you guys wrecked it or, you know, we make it right. The clients are pleased and many times they're surprised. And so they talk with their neighbors about it and with their co-workers and they say, you know, it was four years ago and, you know, Gehman came back and took care of it.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (12:21.024)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (12:27.198)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (12:38.096)
Hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (12:45.097)
Nice.

Dennis Gehman (12:45.918)
So that's an important one. The word of mouth and certainly repeats. We always appreciate when people call us back. And 33 years in, so now I think we've done two kitchens for the second time for some homeowners. It became updated and now they had us back.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (13:05.036)
Have fun!

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (13:09.636)
Literally the family is growing up with you. That's special, very special. Do you have a certain percent of your revenue that you target towards marketing? How do you come up with a marketing budget? Do you have any strategy for it?

Dennis Gehman (13:12.31)
Yes, that's right. Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (13:26.328)
We target somewhere around 3.5% of our revenue for that.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (13:30.112)
Okay?

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (13:33.608)
Very good, very cool. Were there things that you did 30 years ago that you've stopped doing? Some contractors have moved away from print marketing, but it appears that print marketing is still getting some good results for you. But were there things that you did long, long ago that you don't do anymore?

Dennis Gehman (13:48.023)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (13:53.343)
So, home shows is the first thing that I think of. We used to do them quite a lot. We were sort of fading, phasing out of that before COVID, but when COVID shut things down, we just haven't felt the need to do that again.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (13:57.326)
Mmm.

Dennis Gehman (14:13.402)
What other things? Radio. And part of that is because there used to be a local AM radio station and we were advertising on there. They went out of business. So I guess we didn't pay them enough for our marketing. I don't know what. And I miss that. There are two other stations that

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (14:16.576)
Hmm

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (14:26.252)
Bye!

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (14:34.953)
Mmm.

Dennis Gehman (14:42.496)
really got the results like we you know the return on our investment there for that. We never tried television. We've talked about it a few times but never pulled that trigger.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (14:55.764)
What about text marketing? Do you use any text marketing?

Dennis Gehman (14:59.886)
We just started doing some of that. And that seems to be working somewhat. I think people tend to read texts quicker than they do emails. So, you know, that helps. Do you know what tool you were using for this interview? I don't, I'm sorry. Yeah. Do we need to do the right thing? Yeah, yeah. We need to do the right thing.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:02.525)
Nice.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:12.722)
Right.

Do you know what tool you're using for text marketing?

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:22.265)
We need to speak to the marketing director, the son-in-law. No worries. That's.

Dennis Gehman (15:25.974)
Yeah, exactly. He would know that. One of the things that we have talked about, but and we're working at toward implementing is QR codes to put them probably on our vehicles, certainly on the yard signs that we put out in front where we're working, so that people can easily access, you know, if they're behind us at a red light and they're interested, they can pull up their phone and get the information right away.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:36.44)
Mm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:41.971)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (15:55.74)
All right. I noticed you have 43 reviews on Google. Do you have a set process to collect reviews from your happy clients when projects end? Or do people just organically go and write a review because they were happy? Do you have any in-house measures to keep growing those reviews?

Dennis Gehman (16:14.502)
We don't have a formal program and that's something we've been talking about too. Probably the program that we have put out there for any of our employees, if they ask one of our clients to do a review and they do that, we give them $25.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (16:30.572)
Thanks for watching!

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (16:37.765)
Oh nice, that's a great idea.

Dennis Gehman (16:40.042)
Yeah, yeah, and I, but I need to keep reminding them that they forget to.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (16:46.073)
So do you think there is a strategic time or a point in the project completion when it's the right time to ask the homeowner for a review?

Dennis Gehman (16:59.11)
It's a tough one and that's been part of our problem. I feel like we want to wait till the project's done, so they've had the full experience, but then especially on a kitchen or addition, they're so busy, they want to get their life for their family, their house back in order. And so while we ask them, yeah, I'll do it, but they quickly can forget too in their busyness.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (17:09.409)
Thank you.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (17:13.26)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (17:17.684)
I'm sorry.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (17:25.975)
Mm-hmm.

Dennis Gehman (17:28.684)
One of the things that we've thought about is that each one year anniversary of their project during the warranty period, you know, reach out to them and, you know, let them know if there's any issues that they can be in contact with us, but also a link that would make it real easy for them to click on and, you know, just say a few sentences.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (17:51.76)
Amazing. That's such a cool idea. So you think about them at the anniversary, and if they have issues, they can reach out, or if they haven't written a review, they can. That's a cool idea. Considering you have such a longstanding, amazing reputation, how do you ensure consistent quality across all projects, given the ever evolving trends in design and materials? What do you do for, do you have any tips

Dennis Gehman (18:00.342)
Yeah.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (18:21.674)
tricks up your sleeve for quality control.

Dennis Gehman (18:25.722)
Well, we are blessed first off with many employees who've been with us a long time. And so that's a big help. Our longest term, other than my wife and I, is one man is at 29 years. And we have one at 27 and two more coming up on 25 years. So that helps because they know what our expectations are.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (18:31.773)
Nice.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (18:41.265)
Wow.

Dennis Gehman (18:55.896)
especially tradesmen to bring them on. We try to delve into, you know, what are your quality standards? And of course, everybody, yeah, I do great trim work and I can install cabinets. I think many people are shocked initially in their first few months of working with us that our standards are just higher. And, you know, we let them know that

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (19:20.48)
Hmm.

Dennis Gehman (19:25.442)
We're going to be watching closely and not to beat up on them, but you know, we want to teach them so that they can learn and grow also.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (19:33.864)
Nice. So you have established quality by having a high quality team and a longstanding team that's been with you for years. That's amazing. That is indeed a blessing to have employees that stay with you. But you must be a great employer. You must look after them really well, which is why they've stuck on and continue to work with you.

Dennis Gehman (19:41.44)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (19:44.663)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (19:48.676)
Yes.

Dennis Gehman (19:55.794)
We try, that's for sure. On the design side of things, staying up with new trends, we have subscriptions to all the different trade journals that come in here to the office. And I'm an avid reader, so I enjoy reading through them. Not everyone enjoys that, but I encourage them to at least page through and be looking at the pictures.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (20:08.262)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (20:18.526)
Ahem.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (20:22.821)
Right.

Dennis Gehman (20:25.248)
things and it might not be something you have a project to use right now but six months or even a year from now you know when the right one comes along you remember it and then we have that kind of in our back pocket to use.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (20:42.856)
You know, trust is such a big factor when your profession involves being in people's homes, in their private spaces. How do you build that trust with your clients? Does it start with the initial meeting or, you know, how do you make sure that they... Because you both have to like each other for it to succeed. So what are the processes you have in place for that?

Dennis Gehman (21:02.307)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (21:07.006)
I don't know that we have necessarily a formal process. People buy from people they know, like and trust. And it takes time to build that relationship. As you said, we are a design build company. So our sales process is actually several different phases.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (21:16.437)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (21:36.785)
to

leave our office, so to speak, for that initial consultation. We will talk with them on the phone. Sometimes people send us pictures and or many times nowadays with the internet if that house has been sold in the last 10 years chances are we can put in the address and we can pull up pictures of what the kitchen looks like. Yeah, you know so we do those kinds of things. We certainly offer a list of

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (21:41.732)
Excellent.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (21:57.244)
All right. Thanks to Google, yeah.

Dennis Gehman (22:08.136)
that we work for that they can be in contact with and many times they may know someone, you know, on that list so that we find that helpful.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (22:13.714)
Mm-hmm.

Dennis Gehman (22:19.074)
And then, you know, so we have that initial consultation at their home. Since we have a kitchen and bath showroom, we invite them here for a second meeting, usually a week or two after we've met them in their home. And, you know, if it's a kitchen or bath, it makes sense to give them a tour of the showroom. If it's a bedroom addition, there's not as much to see in the showroom about it. But and we take a lot of pictures.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (22:29.587)
Uh.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (22:40.041)
Right.

Dennis Gehman (22:50.068)
We do have a professional photographer and probably 80% of our projects we have professionally photographed. So we can pull up pictures of other projects that we've done that look similar to what it sounds like they want to do. We give them an introduction to Chief Architect, the 3D CAD software that we use for design. And then we put together a document that's called Our Opinion, a Probable Cost.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (22:57.8)
Amazing.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (23:05.752)
Mm-mm.

Dennis Gehman (23:19.268)
And that is really just a bunch of bullet points. You know, let's say it's a kitchen project and they really feel like they're tired of painted cabinets. They want to go with stained. We're starting to see a little bit of more of that than what we had for a while. They want stone countertops. Maybe the floor was recently replaced so they want to keep that. You know, those kinds of things. And then we give them a budget range. We give them a low range, a mid range, and a high range.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (23:19.31)
Mm.

Dennis Gehman (23:48.948)
High range always tells them that the sky is the limit. Depending on what they choose, we could get them a nice looking gold light fixture for $50, or they could spend $300, or they could spend $3,000. It doesn't matter to us, but we want to be respectful of that. So once we've given them that sticker shock,

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (23:52.307)
Mm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (24:07.068)
Right.

Dennis Gehman (24:18.788)
want to move forward then we invite them in to enter into a project development agreement. And that's we ask for a retainer that is 8% of the mid-range budget that we've given them for their project and we are working hourly against that currently it's at $125 an hour and we're going to go and measure the space and you know draw that up and then draw plan number

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (24:24.576)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (24:39.291)
Got it.

Dennis Gehman (24:48.528)
invite them back here. It depends on the project and on their personalities. Some people make decisions quick, other people it's more methodical, it takes time and it's not right or wrong.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (25:00.582)
Yeah, yeah.

Dennis Gehman (25:02.55)
We want to make sure that we're not the ones holding up the process. You know, if, you know, if they are busy and can't meet or whatever, that we're, we're okay with that. But, um, we want to get to the point where they say, you can look at the 3d design. Yeah, that's it. And we have the selections made. So now we can put hard numbers to it. We work on a fixed lump sum contract and hopefully they choose to enter into a construction contract with us.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (25:06.218)
Right.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (25:27.643)
I see.

Dennis Gehman (25:32.644)
do. The money they've paid us for the project development agreement will apply toward the final payment of the construction contract.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (25:40.744)
Nice, nice. Excellent. Thank you for explaining that. So I noticed you, you're dedicated to serving the southeastern Pennsylvania region. What makes that region unique in terms of remodeling challenges and opportunities?

Dennis Gehman (26:00.078)
Well, the opportunities are numerous. We primarily work in Bucks and Montgomery County, and each of those counties have about two million people. So, and thankfully most everybody lives somewhere. There are some homeless, but, you know, so that gives us an opportunity. It is a fairly well-to-do area. There's, you know, we're in the suburbs from Philadelphia,

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (26:09.982)
Mm.

Thanks for watching!

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (26:24.721)
Okay.

Dennis Gehman (26:30.432)
you know, call our area home and then maybe commute into the city. Pharmaceutical is a big industry. Merck of Merck, Sharp and Dome is just on the same road that we are just seven miles east of us. So I haven't looked recently, but at one point at least half of our revenue came from people who worked for Merck. So that's helpful.

are as population density grows, there's more traffic to deal with. I think that the zoning laws and maybe just even the building codes are supposed to be uniform, but every inspector sort of interprets them how they want to interpret them. If we go north and west from where we're at farther away from the city, it's much easier to obtain permits.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (27:07.564)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (27:19.584)
Mmm.

Dennis Gehman (27:29.912)
and coordinate the scheduling of inspections.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (27:33.208)
Interesting. Are there a lot of older homes that need remodels or what is the generic topography of the neighborhoods?

Dennis Gehman (27:41.186)
There are a lot of older homes, which, you know, because this area with Germantown was 1790 something, I think, and you know, so houses that go back a ways. And along with that, one of the other challenges is lead paint. And, you know, for us to make sure that we want to be working safely for our employees, for our clients, and of course, following the laws that the EPA has put out there.

you

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (28:11.912)
Very cool. So when you look at technology, digital tools, what do you use in your business? Do you use like an estimate generation tool? Do you use Build a Trend or AccuLinks or are there any specific tools that you're fond of?

Dennis Gehman (28:29.078)
So we've had a computer from day one in business. I was introduced to them. And so we use Microsoft's product, Word and Excel, certainly. We're using QuickBooks as far as accounting, bookkeeping software. Sage is the estimating software that we're using.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (28:55.262)
Mm-hmm.

Dennis Gehman (28:56.138)
We have not yet used a project management software, but we've decided that we want to move that direction. So we're narrowed down to two or three at this point, and I'm hoping in the next week that we make a decision and move forward.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (29:16.272)
Excellent. Do you know which are the two or three that you've narrowed in on?

Dennis Gehman (29:21.514)
Well, one of the possibilities is Sage because that, you know, since we already use their estimating software, Build Tools is another one and Job Tread. I'd say Job Tread seems like it's rising toward the top.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (29:24.357)
Okay.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (29:32.742)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dennis Gehman (29:42.87)
We'll see, you know, we got a lot of different from our bookkeeping to our production to our estimating, you know, a lot of different people and everybody kind of wants what they want and we're going to have to, somebody will have, some of us will have to compromise.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (29:58.88)
Right. You know, with sustainability becoming more crucial today, do you have any eco-friendly practices for materials and projects?

Dennis Gehman (30:10.786)
Well, I'm a big proponent of initially reduce the waste whenever you can, reuse it when possible, recycle.

And we had that conversation with our clients even during the design phase. Reality is most of the time when we're taking a kitchen out, the cabinets are fine, they're just a bit dated. Sometimes the doors are falling off and nobody else would want them. But so there are two organizations, Habitat for Humanity is nationwide and there's a restore warehouse in both of the counties.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (30:36.788)
Mm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (30:46.42)
Yes.

Dennis Gehman (30:50.992)
near us. There's also a Liberty Ministries which is a prison halfway house for men and women who have been incarcerated. And they set up these thrift stores which is basically used materials to help pay for their program. And then the men and women who are in the halfway house, their first job can be in these thrift stores. So they're kind of earning their way, but they

responsible. How to you need to make sure if you're supposed to be at work at 7 30 in the morning that you're always there and you know some of those kinds of things that many of us take for granted but unfortunately some people were never taught and so we can donate cabinets to them and they can resell them. The first thing that we do we let the clients know that everything we're

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (31:21.977)
Nice.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (31:28.128)
Hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (31:41.483)
Amazing. Wow.

Dennis Gehman (31:50.672)
You may certainly have it. Maybe you want to talk with your neighbors, with your family. If you have a place up at the shore or up in the mountains or down at the shore, you can use it there. I tell them I have more cabinets in my garage than most people have in their kitchen. They don't all match, but they all serve a purpose. And, you know, I saved it from a landfill.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (31:52.232)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (32:10.472)
Yeah, it works. Very cool. Wow. So you are a huge fan of reuse and recycle and I think we have to protect this beautiful earth. Cool. So Dennis, can you share a particularly challenging project that your team tackled, the obstacles faced and how you overcame them? Do you have an interesting story?

Dennis Gehman (32:23.71)
Yes, that's right.

Dennis Gehman (32:39.074)
So one that we actually started just before COVID that comes to mind was an old farmhouse that they wanted us to redo the kitchen. The kitchen was a tight space and on the outside of that was an L-shaped, it was an enclosed kind of a three season room that they said, can we take these kitchen walls out and make this one big space?

The answer was yes, we could do that. The other part was underneath this porch, it was up in the air, probably about three feet off the ground and just up on posts and the floor was not insulated. So, you know, we could have insulated that, but they decided that they'd like to have that as basement space. So we had to support this structure and dig out the basement and he said that was gonna be his work.

workshop. So we went down extra deep, a nine and a half foot ceiling in the basement. And once we had that in, then we came up onto the first floor and took out the load bearing walls and had to put steel in. They wanted to look like an old farm house, like rough sawn wood and so forth. So we wrapped the steel. With that, when we tooled the plaster off the ceiling, thankfully, the wood underneath there, pardon me,

looked nice. We used hand wire brushing and cleaned it up and so everything was left to be exposed. So that was a fun project. Sure.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (34:20.944)
Very cool, thank you for sharing that. What do you say are the top three factors that have contributed to the longevity and success of your design and remodeling company considering you've been in business for 33 years?

Dennis Gehman (34:39.183)
Well, first of all, I owe a lot of thanks to God because he has blessed us and part of that is with...

I was gonna say wisdom, I don't know if I'm always so wise, but the ability to make good decisions. I am very grateful to the team members who stuck with us a long time, that loyalty and their abilities, we've sort of grown together. Certainly Nary, my involvement there, the friends that I've made, as I said, the charter member

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (34:55.201)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (35:10.248)
Yes.

Dennis Gehman (35:18.96)
chapter, but I currently am on the National Board. I've been the president of the National Board. So I've made friends all over the country through NARI, and I've learned something from every one of them. And as I get to the conferences and online webinars, certification programs that I continue to learn.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (35:29.128)
Excellent.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (35:44.392)
Very cool. So Dennis, what advice would you give to homeowners who are hesitant or overwhelmed by the idea of embarking on a remodeling project?

Dennis Gehman (35:55.446)
They should find...

a contractor or a designer, you know, depends which way they want to go. I'm a proponent of design-build. As we're designing, we're already thinking through in our minds how we're going to build this and the practicalities of it. And, you know, if something doesn't go right, we can't point our fingers at someone else. It's all coming back to us. And, you know, so it's our responsibility.

Our end goal is to make sure that...

the client is happy that things are done well. And we're gonna put that before profits if we need to. But certainly our goal is to make some profits so that we can keep on going. I would advise them to interview several different contractors. In our area especially, there are a lot of good contractors, but find somebody who you feel very comfortable with. Check out their references

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (36:41.782)
Right.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (36:47.916)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (36:57.871)
Mm-hmm

Dennis Gehman (37:00.376)
You know, yeah, we'd give a list and I don't know, maybe I'm suspicious by nature. I figure if somebody gives me a list, that's a list of people where everything went well. I went with a list where it didn't go so good. And so I tell people, ask those references, did everything go well? And if not, how did Gehman handle it?

You know, and I tell people, I wish we were perfect. If I told you we were, you'd know I'd be lying. So I might as well get that right out in the open. But our commitment is that if something doesn't go the way that it should, we own up to it. We apologize. We're gonna have a conversation with you about what we need to do to get back on track to make things right and keep on working with it.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (37:48.884)
very cool.

Dennis Gehman (37:50.118)
And part of that, I think, is building trust. Ask your local building inspector. Walk if you're in a community and you see a contractor's yard sign.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (37:57.592)
Mmm.

Dennis Gehman (38:04.098)
Go some evening or some weekend and knock on the door and say, hey, I see a Gheman and sign in the yard. You know, how's it going? Is it a good experience? Would you recommend it? Check them out that way. In Pennsylvania, we don't have contractor licensing. It's called contractor registration. But you can easily find that on the website. Make sure that they have that in place. Make sure that they have insurance. Get that verified.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (38:13.88)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (38:22.781)
I see.

Dennis Gehman (38:34.054)
Um.

Yeah, those kinds of things and personalities. We're checking out the potential client as much as they're checking out us. And sometimes the better projects we never did are the ones where we said, no, that's not gonna be a fit. And it doesn't mean anybody's a bad person. God's made us with different personalities and it's better to respect that. And life is too short. If I've met someone and we've decided

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (38:34.941)
Excellent.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (38:44.426)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (38:51.605)
Mm-mm.

Dennis Gehman (39:04.728)
not to work together, but I see them at a high school football game or something. I want to say, hi, how are you doing? I don't want to feel like, I got to turn and go the other way. That's not good.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (39:17.857)
Right. So Dennis, what is the most valuable lesson you've learned in your career? Do you have a favorite book or a valuable lesson that you'd like to pass on to, you know, really young remodelers and entrepreneurs that are starting in the home improvement construction business?

Dennis Gehman (39:21.875)
I just wanted to say thank you.

Dennis Gehman (39:37.742)
So what you talked about the changes before, one of the big changes are the amount of resources available for people starting in our industry, not just starting, but there are online communities where people can talk and post questions and ideas, get input, the trade journals, many of them are free. I'm an avid reader,

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:05.041)
Mmm.

Dennis Gehman (40:07.776)
But I think anybody who's in a leadership position should want to learn and to grow. And it could be about the trades, it could be about business.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:16.084)
you

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:25.02)
nice so

Dennis Gehman (40:25.682)
Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. There are many people like yourself who really are a consultant to small business owners. You have a wealth of information and experience. Yeah, there comes a point where you need to get paid for some of your services, but you're willing to have a conversation.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:36.097)
Correct.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:48.081)
Absolutely.

Dennis Gehman (40:55.516)
like that. There's generally enough work to go around that, you know, I'm not too concerned about our competitors, you know, and I sincerely want them to do well. And I should probably stop and count, but there's at least a dozen competitors right now who are people that used to work for us.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (40:55.936)
Yes.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (41:14.868)
Ha!

Dennis Gehman (41:15.802)
And that's okay. You know, a couple of them, I get together once in a while and we have breakfast. So, you know, it's good.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (41:22.988)
That's sweet. You know, construction is such a busy business. Do you have any special time management skills or calendar management skills or ideas or tips that you could share with other business owners?

Dennis Gehman (41:40.581)
Probably the best thing is to set some business hours and stick with them.

I'm an early riser, so I'm often in the office by 6, 6.30 in the morning and usually leave 5, 5.30. But I keep it to five days a week. It's been a long time. It's probably at least 15, maybe 20 years since we do evening appointments or Saturdays. People will ask, and I used to say, no, my kids are little. They're growing up fast.

They're growing up, but now my grandchildren are growing up fast and I don't want to miss that.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (42:21.176)
Sweet. So this might be a good question. So tell me something fun about yourself. I figured you have a daughter because your son-in-law is the marketing director. But how many children do you have? How many grandkids? What do you like to do for fun?

Dennis Gehman (42:31.292)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (42:37.174)
We have two sons and two daughters. Both of our sons and one son-in-law work with us here in the business. Three of our children live real close to us, within a couple miles, so we get to see them regularly. And our youngest daughter and family live in Cairo, Egypt. So that's a little bit of a trip to get to see them.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (42:50.826)
Okay.

Dennis Gehman (43:01.49)
But all totaled we have 10 grandchildren ages about, let's see, close to eight months to almost 12. And yes, I enjoy them. I enjoy gardening.

Whether it's flower beds or vegetable gardening, I don't especially appreciate weeds, but I enjoy being out there. And if it's pulling weeds, it's good exercise. It gets me bending up and down. And I like when it looks weed free and looks nice. And mowing the lawn, that kind of thing.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (43:48.216)
There.

Dennis Gehman (43:48.687)
We have a travel trailer on a seasonal site at our church camp which is about 80 miles north of us. And so we like to spend time there and just sit around the campfire and go for hikes in the woods.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (44:00.69)
Wonderful. Nice. Thank you for sharing all of that. So looking ahead, what are some of the aspirations and goals for your company in the, you know, in 2024 or in the next three to five years?

Dennis Gehman (44:16.562)
So at this point we are focusing on setting the business up for the next generation because I am I'm working toward retirement.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (44:25.649)
Congratulations.

Dennis Gehman (44:28.279)
I'm hopeful that I'll be about half time as we go into the new year. I enjoy my work, but I'm ready for the buck to stop with someone else and I think they're ready to take it. So my wife and I have worked in the business. It's been a enjoyable career and a good living for us when we're gonna have more than one owner

families to support in that way that the business should grow. So last year was the first year we ever topped four million in revenue. And so we're wanting to see that grow. And yeah, and this is common knowledge. Our employees all know about this. And I'm hoping that God blesses me with a lot of more years.

If I could do what I want, I would do the sales and design process and meeting with clients. Right now, I wear too many hats. If I try to do that, I end up dropping the ball and the client does not get the service they deserve. And I've learned that. Unfortunately, there were some hard lessons that way when I disappointed some people. So, you know, I've had to say no to that. I'd like to get that turned around where somebody else can do it.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (45:37.196)
Thank you.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (45:44.652)
me.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (45:50.944)
Mm.

Dennis Gehman (45:55.812)
else is doing these other things and I can do some of that.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (45:59.172)
Nice. Well, I hope your retirement plans materialize really soon and you get to spend more time with your grandkids and enjoy them. Any other nuggets of wisdom for up and coming remodelers that are just starting out, dreaming big?

Dennis Gehman (46:04.11)
Thanks for watching!

Dennis Gehman (46:08.386)
Thank you.

Dennis Gehman (46:19.81)
I think one of the biggest things is know your numbers. Many people do not know their numbers and they are not charging enough to have a viable business. And it is the number one thing you hear from people, oh, it can't cost that much and they're sticker shocked and they're gonna shop it around. But you need to be confident about your numbers because if you aren't, you're gonna be tempted to give a discount when you're really

have and you can't afford it. You need that. You need to be able to put money away because not every project goes the way that it should. You need to be able to cover paying people to make things right when mistakes happen.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (46:52.396)
Great, great advice.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (47:01.786)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (47:10.004)
Very cool. Thank you for sharing that. It's been an absolute delight chatting with you. I will have the podcast published and I will let you know when it's ready and we'll share it with you. So you can share it on your social media portals and stuff. So again, I thank you very much for making the time to chat with me and I absolutely enjoyed getting to know you.

Dennis Gehman (47:16.078)
Thank you.

Dennis Gehman (47:26.423)
Yeah.

Dennis Gehman (47:35.03)
You're welcome. Thank you. I've enjoyed it. Yeah.

Rathna - Remodeler Digital (47:38.08)
Thank you.