The Remodeler Digital Playbook Podcast

From Cockpit to Construction: Nick Donahue’s Journey to Remodeling Success

• Rathna Ramakrishnan • Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

In this engaging conversation, Nick Donahue, owner of Handy Dad's Home Remodeling, shares his unique journey from being a Delta pilot to becoming a successful remodeling contractor. He discusses the intricacies of the remodeling process, the importance of customer service, and the tools he uses to streamline his business operations. 

Nick also delves into his marketing strategies, the significance of building relationships with clients, and offers valuable advice for aspiring contractors. His passion for transforming spaces and commitment to quality service shines through as he reflects on his experiences in the industry.

📌 KEY MOMENTS:

- 1:20: From Pilot to Remodeling: A Unique Journey
- 11:48: The Remodeling Process: From Inquiry to Execution
- 17:35: Tech Tools for Efficiency: CRM and Beyond
- 32:47: Advice for Aspiring Contractors: Start and Iterate
- 40:15: Building Relationships: The Importance of Customer Care

🌟 What You'll Learn:
- ACTIONABLE TIPS for remodeling contractors to use technology efficiently.
- INSIGHTS and advice to build customer relationships. 

🔨 Essential listening for remodeling contractors seeking to advance their digital marketing strategies.

🎧 Tune in now to transform your approach to digital marketing!

Ready to see real results from fellow General Contractors?

→ Step 1: Join our FREE Digital Dominance Club for Remodeling Contractors

→ Step 2: Follow us on Instagram

→ Step 3: Schedule a 1:1 call with Rathna now!

Let's rock your remodeling journey! 🛠️💰

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:05.051)
Hello everybody, I am super excited today to have Nick Donahue from Handy Dads Remodeling. I just love the name of his business on our podcast today. So we're gonna dive right in and learn about his story and how he got into the remodeling business. So welcome Nick.

Nick (00:26.188)
Thank you, thank you. But the company is actually Handy Dad's Home Remodeling. So yeah, if you just making it, you know, correct.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:27.379)
What?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:31.075)
Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:35.281)
I condensed your name, so Handy Dads Remodeling. So let's dive right in, introduce yourself. Tell us how you got into the remodeling industry, how many years you've been in it, and if you're comfortable, share your revenue levels or what your goals are when it comes to your business.

Nick (00:38.987)
Okay.

Nick (00:42.668)
Sure.

Nick (00:54.872)
Well, that's a lot. So I've been at this since about 2010. I was a Delta pilot for many years before that. So I left aviation after a 28-year career. And then I got into this just doing simple handyman things for people. And then in 2016, I got my contractor's license and then started doing bigger jobs. And our revenue was about $1.2 million last year.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (01:22.545)
Congratulations.

Nick (01:24.596)
And, but you know, things definitely have slowed at the moment.

What else? So we do lots of kitchen, bathroom remodels, major home construction, remodeling, big all sorts of projects related to the home, garage builds, room additions. Yeah, so.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (01:33.126)
Eh-eh.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (01:46.129)
Cool, and you're based in Georgia.

Nick (01:49.506)
Correct, yeah, just outside of Atlanta.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (01:51.661)
Nice. And what brought you from the skies to construction, going from a Delta pilot to remodeling?

Nick (01:58.636)
You know, it surely wasn't a direct path. You know, I had flown a long time and I just was ready to do something different with my life. And I had actually spent quite a bit of time researching, trying to figure every little possibility of a career change or anything that interested me, I would pursue it. And then nothing really stuck. And then so I just kind of had the free time. And so I just...

started doing little odds and ends for people. And I remember one of my first customers, I just was hanging like toilet paper racks and towel racks, things like that. And I put some pictures, I was hanging some pictures on the wall and I charged them by the hour because I didn't know any better about charging per project. I was just new at this. And I ended up getting like $900 for that. And it was like a day and a half of, not even a whole day.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (02:49.112)
Right.

Nick (02:57.726)
a day and a half of time put into it, but again, not the entire day. And I just said, you know what? This isn't too bad, you know? And so I just kind of kept doing that. Then I met somebody at a Home Depot that was just going through the parking lot and saw a sign on the back of this guy's truck and struck up a conversation with him. And so this guy's been with me now for almost 14 years. And we started just like hanging.

I mean, any kind of odds and ends that we could do to make money, including hanging Christmas lights. That's literally where we started for people. And then we did that for a while. And that wasn't all we did, but that was some additional things we did in order to generate some business. And then, know, shortly after that, he said, I'm not doing this anymore because he's up on a ladder, two stories in the air, leaning back, putting Christmas lights. So we've come a long way.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (03:32.812)
fun.

You

Nick (03:54.104)
And the website actually speaks a little bit to the journey. I was also military before that. I was Air Force. So it's not like I said when I was flying, this is what I want to do, not even anything close to it. So I've been doing this now for, I guess, about 14 years.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (03:59.852)
Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (04:09.157)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (04:13.687)
Amazing, amazing. So that's interesting that you were hanging Christmas lights. feel like lights deliver happiness because people, it just instantly transforms your home. It's the holidays and Santa's coming. And so that's super adorable. And I think.

Nick (04:23.159)
Yeah?

Nick (04:29.238)
Right, it's a great time to look forward to.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (04:31.341)
Yeah, I think remodeling is also a happy business because you as much as you're spending hours and hours in somebody's personal space, know, you're literally transforming lives and creating these spaces where people come in and they have their birthdays and weddings and memories. so when you look at the realm of projects that you've done, you you started with the handyman jobs. What are some of your favorite projects? Do you have a favorite kitchen or a bathroom remodeling where you went in, the project was complex or

Nick (05:00.792)
and

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:01.245)
the budget was limiting or there was a slope or the homeowner had a special need that you had to meet. Do you have a fun story that comes to mind?

Nick (05:08.024)
Bye.

Nick (05:15.255)
I mean

Nick (05:18.752)
I mean, not one particular story. always approach it where when we talk with a couple, what is their vision? And what can we do? I mean, if it's literally changing the structure of their space, taking walls down, what is their vision? How is the light coming in? How is that going to might affect the space? What kind of lighting do they want? So I bring up some additional things too.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:28.113)
You

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:43.695)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (05:47.702)
Because I want it, because they're spending a lot of money doing this. mean, kitchens, master bathrooms, I mean, some of our work is just amazing. And I'm just not bullshit. I'm just being honest. I mean, I'm very proud of the work that our guys do. I call them my, they're basically my Michelangelo's. They take their skills and craftsmanship and they turn it into something just magnificent.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:50.203)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:57.21)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:07.663)
Alright.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:13.371)
Yep.

Nick (06:13.918)
And we've got a lot of great reviews, a lot of photos on the website, and people like us. And not only that, we're friendly. We try to be respectful of people. We communicate with them. I mean, we're not perfect by any stretch of the means. But there's not one particular one. But they all have their intricacies and challenges.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:21.048)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:27.365)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:39.097)
Yep.

Nick (06:41.848)
There's something going on all the time and it's many, many, many moving parts and you things don't always go perfect but you have to be the type of company that will make it right, will fix it, will make the adjustment, whatever. Because oftentimes customers don't necessarily know exactly what they want 100 % and then as things start to unfold, then they'll go, you know what, I don't really like that or can you move that over here or...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:46.214)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:57.572)
Right.

Nick (07:09.993)
That's not kind of what I thought. And so you have to be willing to make those kind of adjustments.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (07:15.319)
Right? Well, friendly is definitely that something that sticks with me when I think about you because I do teach a monthly workshop and I had Nick come to one of those workshops and I landed up getting to know him. We were chatting about his business after the workshop. And when I saw him sign up to be a podcast guest, I was super excited to get to know you better. So, so focusing on the client's needs is a big priority. was curious, considering you've been a pilot, which again involves precision and focus

Nick (07:35.851)
That's awesome.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (07:45.704)
and it's not a trivial role that you play when you're flying those massive planes and the lives that you're responsible for. Do you draw any analogies to being a pilot? And because remodeling is precision work too, is there something that pops in your mind?

Nick (08:03.296)
Yeah, think instinctively I have that personality to accept responsibility. And it's something I don't think about. It's just the way I am. So whether it's flying passengers, I don't think about all the people behind me in all their lives. It just never enters my mind because I'm always thinking that we're up there taking care of ourselves, obviously. And if we are, everybody else is going to be fine.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:09.339)
You

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:13.605)
Hmm?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:22.276)
Interesting.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:32.048)
Yes.

Nick (08:32.95)
I mean, it's that straightforward. Because if you were trying to think of about 300 people behind you, you'd probably never get the airplane in the air. You know, it's just how it is. So when I meet with a customer, I have like an authentic quality about me, where I don't always say what you expect me to say. And it may not always be.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:40.066)
Yeah, rude.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:51.376)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (08:59.688)
It can be a little abrupt maybe once in a while, but I'm very honest and I make recommendations based on what I think. And that doesn't mean that everything I say is what we have to do, but I try to bring up ideas from my perspective that I think, and some of that is design related too. But to your question, it really has to do with just the innate interest and desire. It's just in me to accept the responsibility.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (09:18.299)
Yes.

Nick (09:28.524)
When somebody's trusting me with $100,000 of their money, it's important that we do the right thing to take care of them, communicate with them, and do exactly what we say.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (09:28.603)
Ahem.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (09:33.243)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (09:43.985)
I love it, just the responsibility factor, right? Because that's such a huge part, because your life gets disrupted when you're going through a remodel. You lose your bedroom, you lose...

Nick (09:52.79)
And yeah, and you know what, you're dealing with these people, I'm not dealing with them, but you're interacting with them all the time. I mean, not me so much, but the crews that are out there. And so I've done my best to sort of shape them and teach them around some of it around customer service. That's not always, people don't necessarily have that skill, particularly in this industry, you know, the guys that are out there.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (10:04.644)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (10:22.328)
So things like being on time, communicating, letting them know when you're going to come back, when you're leaving, if there's items they need to pick up, just trying to stay ahead of it. And it's just like this huge basket of moving parts. It's just many, many moving parts. And so a lot of my time is sort of with this obsession of how to be efficient, how to be smart, and just, you know,

Rathna Ramakrishnan (10:36.569)
Yes.

Nick (10:50.178)
Getting back to my flying, we have checklists that we follow. You have to adhere to those steps. And they're in a sequence. And they're there for a reason. So I, again, innately apply that sort of logic and approach to the way I do the business.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (10:52.643)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:06.577)
fascinating. Well, I love to travel and anytime I'm on a plane and I hear the pilot's voice, come on, I'm just all ears. I'm like, God, right there, take us home. Take me to my destination so I can have a grand time, right? So that's incredible.

Nick (11:16.152)
Right? Yeah.

Nick (11:22.134)
Right?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:22.565)
That's incredible that you take those checklists and you apply it to your work today. So let's pretend I'm a lead. I've come into your universe, be it either through a phone call or a referral. What does the process look like once you have a homeowner that's initiated contact with you and is interested in doing business with you? Then what happens to the process where it becomes a full-blown project?

Nick (11:48.084)
So they have to begin by going to the website. I have an intake form they have to complete. And that form has a variety of questions on it that are all there with a purpose. those questions give me insight. So when that lead comes in then, then when we call, we have some context around what the project is, what they're wanting, what their budget is, which they don't always tell the truth around that. just those questions, like when they want to start.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:53.073)
Okay?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (12:13.393)
You

Nick (12:17.844)
Is the house on sewer or septic? If it's an outside project, do they have a survey? So there's a lot of questions there that need to be asked, and they're all required, and they have to complete the form. Occasionally, somebody has difficulty with it and will do it for them, but that information helps us, and that's how it gets into the CRM. So then from there, we decide who we feel that needs to go out to the project.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (12:20.145)
Mm.

Nick (12:45.782)
I mean, obviously the project manager goes, but it could be, you know, do one of the license subs need to go? Electrician, plumber, HVAC person. Do we need a designer? You somebody to do drawings. Do we need an interior designer? Is there concrete involved? So we decide who's going to be sent out and then they go out and then we get an idea of when their quotes are going to be coming back to us. That gets into the CRM. So then sort of the clock starts.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:01.414)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:14.075)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (13:14.528)
And then we give the customer some perspective around how long it will take us to get the quote to them, depending upon the complexity of it. And another thing we've been doing now for some time is that we don't just start that journey with doing a ton of work in a lot, because it takes time to put together a quote. And the more complicated the job, obviously, the more people involved. And then when you get into permitting, it's a lot. So what we've started doing is coming up with like a ballpark.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:32.581)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:40.024)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:43.867)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (13:44.312)
and we give them kind of a range and we do our best to be for it to fall in there. But I feel that if the customer is, if those numbers don't make sense to them, there's no point in everybody, I mean, not so much me, but many other people that work with me and for me have to put time in. And when you're dealing with subcontractors who are not your employees, you have to be very judicious of their time because

Rathna Ramakrishnan (14:04.293)
Yes.

Nick (14:12.908)
You can't keep sending them out to a job and not closing the job. we get a sense for the overall cost, build in profit, and get that out to them as quickly as we can. And then if they want to move forward, we, in earnest, start sending the people out. We get the drawings done. And then once the drawings are done, drawings are required,

Rathna Ramakrishnan (14:15.473)
You're right.

Nick (14:39.362)
then we can send that out to everybody. And then we start getting the hard numbers in. And then we work through this iterative process of answering questions, making adjustments and changes, whether it's into the drawings. It could be many things. And then once that's done, then it goes into a formal estimate. And then they sign that sent to them. They sign electronically. And then we.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (14:42.971)
right.

Nick (15:10.136)
Once they sign them, we set up a date when we're going to start the project. We let them know about the items that's in the estimate of what they need to bring to the project. And so they get ahead of it. But we don't start the project until the customer has the items that they need. Because we like to keep the project moving. And you know I'm giving you all my secrets, Ratna. I'm giving you all my secrets.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (15:20.356)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (15:31.505)
So when you, well, that was great. When you say items, you're talking about like faucets and tiles and paint color and those things that the homeowner has to choose. And then you come and you hit the road running. Amazing. Well, it looks like a very detailed process and the subcontractors that you work with, I guess you have a trusted pool that you pull from for every project and you've vetted them and you know that they're the best quality, they meet your needs and so forth.

Nick (15:40.928)
Exactly.

Exactly.

Nick (16:00.885)
And let me tell you, in this business, in this industry, that's probably the heaviest lift that you deal with, is you turn through these people. They may not, they say they're going to show up and they don't show up. You get all kinds of scenarios. They don't present well, or they're super, they're really expensive. So if your subs are high, you're not going to get the job. So everybody's time is being wasted.

So yes, it's a process. when you land on those that you like, you get along with, because you have to have a working relationship too, you know? And then they're going in representing you also to the customer when they're out doing their work. So yeah, it's a process. And that's been a challenge. But we've got it going finally now.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (16:35.407)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (16:48.131)
Nice, nice. So you mentioned a couple of times that you use a CRM. What is the tech stack that you use today to simplify your life, know, create? Nice. And then estimate generation.

Nick (16:56.938)
I use Zoho.

Nick (17:02.358)
Rath, can you hear me? The signal is not that good.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:04.399)
Yep, I can hear you. So for estimate generation, what are you?

Nick (17:07.16)
Yeah, so I use Zoho CRM, the Zoho One. And that has been customized to work for what I do and the way I do things. And I have the ability to go in and make changes myself, which I really like that. So I don't have to, you I don't have a off the shelf type of CRM that I'm limited in what I can do.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:11.34)
Okay. Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:24.302)
Nice.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:29.018)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:35.227)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (17:35.768)
and I have to adapt to what other people are doing or the way they've set it up. I've created this around the way we do our business. And then again, I have the ability to go in and make changes to it, which is I really like that. So I can do it timely. And then if I need something that I can't do, then I can talk to one of the programmers and they've been very good at helping me make that adjustment.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:51.16)
Nice.

Nick (18:04.352)
or create whatever it is that I needed.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (18:06.893)
Nice. So you're able to add your contractors in there, manage your payments and everything inside the same CRM and maintain your customer lists.

Nick (18:14.84)
Payments, I could do a lot more with it. mean, the payments is not integrated. I do that through QuickBooks. Yeah, so, you know, basically that works through my deposits and then my expenses, things like that. That's all part of QuickBooks.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (18:28.677)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (18:32.751)
And then you have a bookkeeper who keeps your books to tally your numbers. Nice.

Nick (18:36.342)
Yep. Yep. Yep. And one of the biggest, really, this is important. I've always been the kind of person, I try to do everything myself. And that's a really hard thing to wrap your head around and to get to a place to where you realize you can only go so big.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (18:46.671)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:01.659)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (19:03.608)
no matter what it is. And I have other things that I'm working that are, that other businesses that are going to feed into what I'm doing here. But I've stopped that whole thing. I'm trying to do everything myself. And so to your point about a bookkeeper, it so happens that guy that works for me doing a variety of other tasks within the office also does my QuickBooks. So, yeah, so I mean, it's fairly straightforward. I run everything through

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:13.475)
Nice.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:23.61)
Very good.

you

Nick (19:30.208)
I use a card or I write a check. So everything really ends up through my bank account and then goes into the QuickBooks that way. But at this point, the CRM, like my invoicing and things does not tie into my.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:37.551)
Very cool.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:43.151)
Yes, yes, there's a great book by an author called Benjamin Hardy, Who Not How.

is the title of the book and it's one of my favorite books is that if you really want to scale as an entrepreneur, you need to figure out who on your team is going to do the job and not tell yourself, how am going to get this done? How am I going to get this done? And once you get out of that, how am I going to get this done into the who is doing it for me? That's when you have the brain bandwidth to think and dream and scale your business. So very cool.

Nick (20:00.024)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:13.869)
Do you use any AI in your business today? Have you played around with chat GPT or Gemini or

Nick (20:21.27)
Yeah, I have. I have, both of them.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:24.119)
And do you use it for communication? What are some of the things you've played around with it?

Nick (20:28.888)
I had a I Just did an executive summary back a couple months ago I'm starting another company called Illyrium and that combines home remodeling electrical plumbing and HVAC Under one roof and I was working on an executive summary. So I use both Gemini and Chad GPT. I don't have extensive, you know use them. I don't really have a need

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:35.921)
Hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:44.634)
Nice.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:53.978)
Very.

Nick (20:58.53)
But they're there and when I need them, I go there. I want to, you for something, whatever it is I'm doing.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (21:03.407)
What does Allerium mean?

Nick (21:06.846)
It doesn't. It's something I came up with. Yeah.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (21:07.533)
It's a made up word. Love it. Yeah, it sounds like a really cool name. Looks like you have the... Yeah, I like it too. It sounds like exotic gold or something. I don't know. Like it resonates.

Nick (21:12.81)
Yeah, I liked it!

Nick (21:20.342)
Yeah, well, that's yeah, like some sort of metal of some sort. Yeah.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (21:22.993)
Yeah, yeah. Well, what is your marketing methodology considering I'm a digital marketing agency that works exclusively with remodeling contractors? I'm always curious to learn about what is your marketing methodology? Do you spend a certain amount of dollars based on where your revenue is at today or where you want your revenue to be? Or do you just do a lot of word of mouth, referrals, do do print ads? What's been your methodology in terms of staying in business and scaling?

Nick (21:48.802)
You know?

Nick (21:52.468)
I wish I could tell you there was a method to it or some strategy, but over the last three years, four years almost, we've just been insanely busy, obviously because of COVID. I mean, we've come through this cycle of everybody doing home remodeling projects. haven't, you know, I mean, we might have sometimes five or 10 appointments a day. We did, but that's what it was like.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:07.556)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:18.245)
Hmm.

Nick (22:21.428)
It's not like that. And I'm getting more more subcontractors reaching out to me looking for work. So that is kind of where we are in the times right now.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:26.607)
I see.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:30.479)
With it slowing down, do you have a strategy? Are you reaching out to your past clients to...

Nick (22:35.852)
Well, OK, so there's a few things.

I have a postcard that I created, once again me, right? And I do that, I mail it out through every door direct, I think it's called, through the US Postal Service. And that's pretty straightforward. I order the postcards through Vistaprint. And then I've got a postage stamp kind of thing that's part of the printing process.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:50.491)
Correct. Mm-hmm.

Nick (23:10.006)
I forgot what they call that thing, but so I don't have to put you down.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (23:11.889)
the automated stuff,

Nick (23:16.728)
Yeah, so it just makes it convenient. So I get the postcards mailed to me, and then I go to the post. Well, then I have these forms. I have to go online to my account. And then there's some forms I have to complete. And there's a protocol, a process for it. And then you put your postcards in a basket, and you take them to the post office. And you're done for me. You pay for your postage when you're there. And that's it. So I've got the postcard.

that I do. We just started doing some Facebook and Instagram posts. Again, the gentleman that works for me likes to do that stuff. You know, I'm old school. I'm not that social. Just how it is, you know. So I'm not on Facebook. I mean, I have a page and stuff, but I don't go. I don't post. don't, you know, I have a very light presence there, but he's all over that. So Facebook, Instagram, we've got going.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:07.941)
Nice.

Nick (24:12.536)
I got my little list here, because I knew you were going to ask me that question. First engine optimization is just all come from being organic. Nothing really special there. It would be nice to move up, but there's back end things and links. There's a lot of things you've got to do that I don't have the time for and just haven't made a decision to hire somebody like yourself to do that, to be honest. I've also started.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:15.867)
Yeah

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:31.537)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:39.057)
All right.

Nick (24:42.04)
looking into print advertising. But to get in, there's a magazine called The Home Mag. Have you heard of it? Yeah, it's really popular here. But The Home Mag, and then there's a new one that just came out called Prestigious Living. So just over the last week, we've been checking into pricing. And it's like $1,500 a month for a full-page ad and a grand for like a half page.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:44.593)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:57.221)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (25:03.717)
Yes.

Well...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (25:10.153)
Those things can work if you have a very clear trackable process. So that was gonna be one of my next questions is, if you're doing all of this work with the postcards, do you know what your conversion is? How do you know that the lead came from the postcard? you using a unique phone number, a unique offer? What is your methodology?

Nick (25:28.055)
No, well, it says on there, if you mention that it's from the postcard, you get some sort of a discount. So it's just a way to let people know. And then when they go to the forum, remember, because everybody comes through the forum, there's a question on there that asks how you heard about us. So they have to answer that question. So I know whether it's, go ahead.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (25:35.107)
Nice, so you have an offer.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (25:46.507)
Mm-hmm. Right. And then you've... And you've tallied it up. You said, we sent 100 postcards, we got 10 phone calls, and then three converted into projects.

Nick (25:57.11)
Yeah, my response on that is about a half a percent. It's not a lot. But in my world, one job and that expense has been covered. And then next door, I'm sure you're from everyone next door. I'm on next door a lot. But this is interesting, and this just goes to what I was saying a while ago.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:03.919)
Yeah.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:07.791)
Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:11.727)
Right, right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:16.911)
Yes, yes.

Nick (26:26.328)
I can't get into the way we do our next door stuff because it's really worked well for us. But now we don't see many people at all looking for recommendations at all. It's very, very different. And I think until we get past the election and probably into the first of next year, it's just going to stay like this. And we have a lot of geopolitical things going on around the world that are impacting it.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:43.749)
Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:49.489)
you

Nick (26:54.744)
you know, there's a number of reasons and I think we're going to be in this state for a while, but that's why I'm not willing to go spend a bunch of money right now every month, because I feel like it's just my own opinion that it could be wasted. I mean, it puts my company name in front of people, but people are not committing resources on a large scale right now. I mean, I just know that for a fact. So I'm going to hold off a little bit on any serious expenditures. Having said that, I do have

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:06.757)
Yep.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:17.241)
Right, you're...

Nick (27:24.716)
And I can't really get into this because this is another business I'm going to start. But it's a way that I'm going to be able to do my advertising and have it paid for by other people. And I'm going to be able to do it. Now assuming I'm still in the phase of doing my research on it, so I haven't made a decision yet, but I'm moving toward starting this if I'm

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:37.073)
Cool, very cool.

Nick (27:51.896)
if the numbers make sense. I gotta look at my costs and everything. But just based on the advertising costs that I just told you about in the Home Mag, I I'm thinking I'm gonna be able to come in and be competitive on price and offer a better service delivery area. Because one of the things I'm dealing with with Home Mag and prestigious living is...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (28:11.823)
Nice.

Nick (28:18.028)
They don't allow you to break it up in a way that really kind of works for you and where your work area is. So for example, for that cost of a couple thousand dollars for a full page ad, a huge percentage of those magazines are going to places that aren't even in my service area.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (28:23.074)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (28:34.797)
I see.

Nick (28:37.718)
So that's why I've got this idea. there's a number of things I do.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (28:42.789)
Very cool. Your idea seems exciting and I hope it comes to fruition. Next door, like you say, if you look historically, this is not the first time the world has been through a pandemic. This is the second pandemic that we've been through and it takes about five years for humanity to snap out of such a worldwide event. So I feel hopeful going into 2025 that it's going to be on the upward trend and of course, elections and world calamities and all of those are just inevitable and they keep coming and going.

Nick (28:46.946)
Thank you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (29:12.723)
Nextdoor, I don't know if you're aware, has recently launched a separate ad platform and it is something that we do for our clients where we go in and we manage the ads. Considering your quality of work is so high and you have such cool, you know, amazing reviews, it might be worth it for you to look at applying for the Nextdoor Neighbor Award. I don't know if you're aware of that. It's a voting process. Nice, cool.

Nick (29:31.786)
I'm on there, I do that.

Nick (29:36.92)
I do that. I do that. I've gotten awards the last like four or five years. And I do... Well, you know what? Actually, that's good point. I do not, I don't have that. And that's a great point. But the thing about the advertising is that actually a friend of mine, her son is a programmer for them in San Francisco. Their dashboard is not robust at all.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (29:42.287)
Fantastic. Is it linked to your website? Are the awards linked?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:06.245)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (30:07.042)
There's just not much information. So, and I pay every month for it, you know, and one of the tasks that I've just given this guy that I have hired recently is to really kind of spend more time digging into it to see if it's worth it. Cause I mean, it's not much per month. I'm, you know, that that's not the issue, but the return, you know, I just, mean, I'm getting people coming to us from next door, but I feel that it's more a result of

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:11.067)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:23.172)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick (30:36.608)
my outreach and the way I'm doing things rather than from the ad. Because I can't really see where the ads are showing up. I've never seen ads anywhere. And though I've had like 8,000 or 9,000 people supposedly look. So that's one of the things. then if you want to talk about like AdWords or the AdWords program, things like that. Yeah, PPC. The return on that stuff, I mean, you can get plenty of clicks.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:40.07)
Great.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:43.375)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:51.375)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:57.659)
BBC, yeah, yeah.

Nick (31:06.284)
I mean, you can pay as much as you want and move yourself up on the per click thing. But that doesn't translate necessarily, even though they go to our landing page and all that. And I know my process I'm sure could be improved on. I'm for sure that. But I've had it before where my campaigns have worked and I've gotten responses out of it, or gotten people come to the website and they've converted, at least converted to

Rathna Ramakrishnan (31:20.388)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Nick (31:34.434)
coming to my website and entering the information. Maybe not all the way to the customer, but that's one of the things I consider a conversion is where they come through and fill the form out.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (31:42.681)
of course. Well, think digital marketing has really evolved and I know you're not a very social guy in terms of being on social media, but today with pixels we're able to track lead actions, we're able to convert.

leads that come to the landing page don't take an action. There's just so many things that we can do if you're interested in digital marketing and putting money into digital marketing. And on the same note, because you mentioned SEO, the way you need to approach SEO is to ask yourself, do you want to be in business for the next three to five years or the next five to 10 years? And then make an investment in SEO because SEO doesn't happen overnight. As you well know, it takes a bit of time and it's just content, right? The content as in your before and after photos.

Nick (32:22.136)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (32:26.351)
Talk about your project, write a blog, that's it. That's what SEO is. And when done consistently and repeatedly, you're going to get traffic from your neighboring cities and so forth. So there's quite a lot of brand new contractors that listen to our podcast. And if you were to look at your journey and give them know, tidbits of wisdom.

What would it be if there is a young person that's considering getting into the remodeling industry? For you, you said you went and you you you tried it, you liked it, there was a $900 that you made and it felt good. Is there a book, a mentor? What would you recommend if there is a young person that's considering getting into the remodeling industry?

Nick (33:14.392)
You know, this isn't my first business. I've started other businesses and you have to start, first of all, and get out of the theoretical and just go do something. You know, just go get some cards printed up. Do the door to door. Do whatever it is you got to do to get your name out there to get started. And if they're starting out just doing handyman things, that's not that complicated. There's so many people that are always looking for that.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (33:24.703)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (33:33.873)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (33:41.424)
Right.

Nick (33:42.008)
So if you're looking to, say, start there, that's not hard. I mean, you should be able to get somebody that wants their toilet fixed or a room painted or a sink fixed. I mean, there's a million things you can do there and make money. But the thing is that you've got to get started, get a job or two, and then iterate. Because it's an evolving process. It's definitely not a straight line.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (33:51.515)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:08.689)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (34:12.182)
And you have to try something and learn from it. Try something and learn from it. And then keep making those adjustments. And throughout all of that, you have to be friendly, be authentic, be responsible, do what you say. And people have to like you. At the end of the day, business is about people. It's people. It's not Microsoft. It's the people. I mean, it's the brand, of course, but

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:14.491)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:32.56)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:35.931)
Right.

Peace.

Nick (34:41.768)
It's people making the decisions that underlie all of that, know? Or underlay all of that. So you have to be the person who represents your company and be of character to do a good job and want to do a good job for people. And it's not always about the money. That's the other thing. I mean, the money obviously is a byproduct of it. But that comes from doing the right thing over and over again.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:45.495)
Absolutely.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:58.937)
Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:08.229)
Very true, great points. Yeah, remodeling is such a personal business because you're in people's homes.

Nick (35:12.98)
It is. mean, where I'm at now, I'm in somebody's home for a month or two months sometimes. You you really get to know these people. You know, they're animals, you know, they're kids, you know. And that's one of the things that they're looking at you, the way they look at you. Are you somebody I want in my house? So present yourself well. Like I do this shirt. It takes nothing for that. And I have a cap that I also has an E-model.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:18.8)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:29.167)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:37.168)
Very cool.

Nick (35:42.262)
That's cheap stuff, but it's brand awareness, you know?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:43.331)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:47.107)
Yep, and makes you look professional. So let's switch gears and talk about reviews. I know you have a lot of five-star reviews on your Google Business Profile, and reviews are social proof today. Today, when anybody's trying to hire somebody or even go buy a pair of socks on Amazon, we look, glancing over, is it a 4.8? Is it a five-star? And then making a decision, right?

Nick (35:50.188)
Yeah.

Nick (36:09.066)
I know. Isn't that funny? We all do that.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (36:11.043)
Yeah, our brains are just conditioned for that social proof. Like what did 100 other people think about this experience if, with 6,000 people, I like that 6,000 people versus the 100 people review. Our brains are just wired like that. So when you think about your review collection strategy, do you have a plan in place? Is there a point in the project completion where you go and you remind the homeowner to give you a review or have all your reviews just happened organically? Like what is your process?

Nick (36:15.116)
Right.

Nick (36:25.388)
Right.

Nick (36:35.479)
Yeah.

No, no. Well, I have like 80 something over on Angie and then I have like 35 or something. We just got a couple more five stars within the last two weeks and we just finished the job yesterday and we call the customer and we always suggest that we would like a five star review. You know, I don't need a two or a three. I mean, I'm really trying to get a five. And if we're not, I'm just being honest.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (36:44.859)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (36:50.405)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (37:07.754)
If we haven't been able to earn that, I tend to not ask. Because everything doesn't go perfect all the time. I mean, in the end, you do everything you can. But sometimes a project can be slowed down for various reasons. I mean, there's a lot of factors that go into these big jobs. So I always ask for a five star from the people. And obviously, you have to have a sense for how did everything go well in the project? Was it an exceptional situation?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (37:11.92)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Eh.

Nick (37:37.464)
maybe just a little less than that, where you're thinking you could get a four. I really try to go for those five. So if you don't put that in the people's minds, you don't know what they're going to get. So I upfront ask, really, five stars are really important. We would appreciate it. And that's not to be disingenuous or unethical. I mean, if they don't feel that we've earned that, then that's fine. I'm fine with that. So we ask.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (37:46.57)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (37:57.039)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (38:02.074)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick (38:05.758)
And then I have a link that I send them, that I email them in Google that takes them right to where they need to go. And it takes five seconds to do a review. And then I try to remember when the review comes in from Google, I try to go back right then and reply and thank people for taking the time, letting them know that we enjoyed getting to know them and working with them on the project. And I just say a little something.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (38:14.288)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (38:24.613)
Yes.

Nick (38:35.724)
You know?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (38:35.811)
Right, just a nice touch as the owner to acknowledge the time that they took to write you a review.

Nick (38:40.096)
Right, right. And something else I've been thinking about lately is maybe getting like, I don't know, maybe a bottle of wine or a bottle of champagne or some gift at the end as a nice touch to let people know that you really appreciated their business.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (38:58.085)
Well, I can give you a little tip. have contractors that when they finish projects, we just put them into our CRM and then we set an alert for 365 days later. And on the 365th day, we'll automatically send an email to the homeowner and say, Hey homeowner, this is, know, contractor XYZ thinking of you. We did your kitchen remodel. How is it going? And invariably they reply back and say, there's this some faucet, some little thing. We notify the contractor contractor runs out, takes care of it, goes along with a bottle of wine or champagne.

And at that time, we were able to get a second review from the same homeowner in one year because they're just so, yeah, so they're so pleased that you cared and you remembered. And then for you, like going and fixing a little facet issue or tile issue is like, know, half an hour of work, but then that, again, the responsibility and credibility that comes out of it, they just fall in love.

Nick (39:32.258)
Right. I like that. Yeah. Right.

Nick (39:49.356)
Yeah, and you have to do that. You have to go out and deal with those things. You can't just avoid that. got to, you I always say the way you do anything is the way you do everything. So when you are doing a job for people, just because you're done doesn't mean, I mean, now, if it's, you know, years gone by or something like that, you know, have to use judgment.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:03.095)
everything.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:15.685)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (40:16.364)
But if something does happen within that period that you're under warranty, and sometimes even outside of that, we'll go back. We don't just run away. Because bad reviews will really hurt you. You don't want the bad reviews. You really want to do everything you can. But sometimes, I'm going way out of the scope, right? I'm talking about all kinds of things. But you have to kind of know who you are and know the company.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:27.705)
Yes.

Nick (40:46.048)
and know what your values are. Because if somebody's pushing you for something that is not consistent with, I mean, it's not fair. I mean, because sometimes customers, there's issues with customers. I've actually started a database of people that are a pain in my what, you know what, and I don't want to deal with them again. It's true. Yeah. I, hey, you know what? I always say not everybody's my customer.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:47.323)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:58.969)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:06.969)
You should make a series on customers that I don't. I think we all have that.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:15.375)
Right, it's okay, It's okay, yeah.

Nick (41:16.288)
And I'm fine with that. I'm not everybody's my customer. Like, we have a certain way that we ask for money upfront and the way we do it in the middle and the way we do it at the end. And customers aren't OK with that process because that's not me being kind of arbitrary about it. That's come from time of knowing that I need money to be able to keep the project moving. I don't want to be waiting, chasing somebody down for a check, you know, through the process. So.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:39.931)
Fair enough.

Nick (41:45.108)
If they are not willing to go with the program, then I respectfully say, I understand, you know, because there's a trust factor, right? Some people, you know, they may give me $50,000 upfront. I mean, literally, or I've had it a little bit more a few times. So there's a massive trust, but there's a proportionate amount of responsibility too. And for me, I'm like, that really...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:59.825)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:08.442)
Mm-hmm.

Nick (42:14.336)
resonates with me when somebody trusts me to that extent. It really, like, come hell or high water, they're going to have a great experience with me. And my guys know that too. I mean, I'll be all over them like white on rice if they're not doing the right thing. But most of the time, I don't have any issues with guys. And one guy's been with me 14 years, and the other one about four now. So it's the culture. It's the way you teach people.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:17.188)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:30.189)
Right.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:38.907)
Congratulations.

Nick (42:43.308)
you know, what you expect from them, that kind of thing. And how, cause they watch how I respond to the customer to know how they should respond.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:48.369)
True.

Right. So when you're not coming up with new business ideas or running your remodeling business, what do you do for fun?

Nick (43:04.024)
I'm going to Antarctica in January. That's my last continent. Of course, I still have my travel privileges, which I'm grateful for.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:04.591)
Nice.

Fantastic!

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:14.914)
with with Delta nice.

Nick (43:19.35)
Yeah, so I like being creative. I have a little simulator that I fly. I've got the controls and all that. So that's kind of a fun thing. And I go see my grandkids and my daughters. And I don't know, just stay busy.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:27.309)
cute!

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:38.065)
Nice. Do they live close by? Do you get to see them often or do you have to hop on a plane to go see them?

Nick (43:41.272)
Unfortunately, my youngest daughter moved to Arizona about two years ago. She says she's coming back in May though, because her husband got a great job. And so off go my grandkids who were, you know, I was just there, my oldest just turned three. So they're coming back, which I'm super excited about. And my other daughter lives in Boynton Beach in Florida.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:54.186)
Nice.

Nick (44:09.672)
And I don't know if it should be moving back anytime soon. But we see each other as much as we can. And it's great being a grandpa.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (44:16.913)
Super cool. Yes, I'm sure. Do you have a planned itinerary for Antarctica? Are you traveling with the group or did you just make it yourself?

Nick (44:28.024)
I made it myself. I'm on a really nice cruise company called,

Rathna Ramakrishnan (44:29.967)
Nice.

Nick (44:40.28)
if I hadn't have said that, Silver Sea, called Silver Sea. Have you ever heard of them? Yeah, I mean, it's expensive. I'm not gonna lie, but it's a really nice experience. So I'm flying down to like Buenos Aires, then I'm going from there to Santiago, and then they fly us from there down to Port Williams, which is in the southern part of Chile. And then we take the ship from there.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (44:42.384)
Yes, I've heard of them, yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:02.267)
Fantastic.

Nick (45:10.07)
go on to the continent. And then we're there for 10 days between traveling back and forth over the direct passage and the time on the continent. Yeah, I had promised my daughters I'd take them there. I told them when they were younger, I wanted to take them to all the continents. But my youngest, who has the children now, is she can't leave the kids. The girls are young and

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:19.931)
Fantastic. I'm excited.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:27.611)
Mm-hmm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:34.955)
Damn kids!

Nick (45:38.808)
You know, my other daughter's going with me, which I'm really happy about. So I'm going to fulfill that goal I had set for them. hopefully one day my other daughter will go with me, will do something. We traveled.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:47.121)
Sweet.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:52.414)
Very cool. Well, Antarctica is definitely on my bucket list, so have a great time. I'll connect with you after your trip, too.

Nick (45:58.761)
Yeah, absolutely.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:59.457)
for tips and so forth. So considering remodeling is such a hectic business, do you have like a morning routine or some habits that really see you through this kind of entrepreneurial lifestyle that you've chosen for yourself? If there's other remodeling contractors that are listening to this and trying to come up with stability in their day of how you manage time and you must be such a methodical, meticulous human considering you've flown planes and been a pilot. What are some habits that you have

that serve you in this busy pace of life and work.

Nick (46:33.538)
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is I don't tolerate distractions real well. I'm very focused, you know what I mean? And I like to be in my personal space to kind of process and think through things a little bit and sort of extrapolate the way, this new business I was telling you about for advertising, I just kind of get in my space. And I work from home, which my expenses are very reasonable.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (46:38.67)
Nice.

Nick (47:02.498)
They're actually very, very low. So I just have a routine where I come in, or get my coffee, come in here in my office, and just look at what's ahead and put things in order. But it's like any office. There's a certain bit of chaos when part of the personality that goes with some of the things I've been telling you about is one that is into a lot of different things. So try and focus.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (47:28.08)
Right.

Nick (47:30.92)
Stick to what it is, get some things done, and get accomplished is something you have to really discipline yourself for. Because when you have a lot of things you think about, it's easy to not get much done. So I would say cut out distractions. You have to have a space that you can go to that you will defend. I mean, you don't let people come in all the time. A lot of times, if the phone rings, I don't answer the phone.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (47:45.263)
Mm.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (47:59.226)
Right.

Nick (48:00.982)
I'm not interrupted people. I have the other gentleman I told you about that he works in an office not far from me, but he's similar to me like that. We kind of respect each other's time and then we get together, discuss things, but that's how it works for me. But I do get accused of working quite a bit, but to me, I don't really see it as work because I can choose to do what I wanted. If I don't wanna work, I don't have to work either as far as...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (48:30.264)
Go to untouch.

Nick (48:30.87)
I want to take a week or two off or do whatever I want to do. But it's taken time to get here. Now, that didn't happen overnight.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (48:37.393)
All right.

So staying focused and you enjoy the time freedom and you know, staying on track when you're focusing on one project. Well, Nick, it's been an honor and it's been delightful to chat with you to learn about your business as well as your personal story. So thank you for your time. I have one last question. Considering this is the first time you've been on a podcast, I do have a lot of contractors that are interested in being on a podcast and then they shy away saying, I've never been on a podcast. So how is

Nick (48:49.72)
Thank you. Same here.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:08.237)
this experience of just being on a podcast with me.

Nick (49:13.168)
it is, it's fine. You know, I, I, I just, guess I had more to say than I realized. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I just kind of, you know, I didn't really have any nervousness. I was just kind of ready to, ready to, to talk about it. And I, and I'm very open. That's the other thing. So it's not like I was trying to be careful about what to say, what not to say.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:22.623)
We all do. We all have interesting stories.

Nick (49:42.228)
I basically have almost told you everything. But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean somebody else is going to run off and go make that happen, because it takes way more than just an understanding what to do. It's doing it and executing.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:44.453)
This be you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:53.531)
Right.

Yes, ideas that Daima does in implementing that and making a dollar out of it is not for the faint of heart. So I completely resonate with that. Well, thank you again. It's an honor any time somebody chooses to be on my podcast. And it's their first podcast experience. I hope you go and you speak to more podcasters and share your story. And it's such a fantastic story. So thank you again.

Nick (50:00.279)
Yeah.

Nick (50:20.504)
Yeah, thanks for inviting me too. I appreciate it. was a pleasure.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (50:22.949)
Thank you, Nick.