The Remodeler Digital Playbook Podcast

The Future of Home Improvement: Zett Quinn on AI, Customer Satisfaction, and Sustainable Growth

• Rathna Ramakrishnan • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode of the Remodeler Digital Playbook Podcast, Zett Quinn from Quality Craftsman shares his inspiring journey into the home improvement industry, detailing his early experiences, the challenges he faced, and the strategies he implemented to grow his business. He emphasizes the importance of marketing, customer satisfaction, and leveraging technology, including AI, to enhance operations. 

Zett also discusses the significance of building a strong company culture and offers valuable advice for aspiring contractors. As he looks to the future, he remains optimistic about the remodeling industry while acknowledging the need for careful financial management and controlled growth.

📌 KEY MOMENTS:

- 02:55: Overcoming Challenges and Growth Strategies
- 11:54: Financial Management and Controlled Growth
- 20:58: Leveraging Technology and AI in Business
- 26:58: Building a Strong Company Culture
- 32:59: The Future of the Remodeling Industry

🌟 What You'll Learn:
- ACTIONABLE TIPS to use technology and AI to your advantage. 
- INSIGHTS into how to build a strong company culture. 

🔨 Essential listening for remodeling contractors seeking to advance their digital marketing strategies.

🎧 Tune in now to transform your approach to digital marketing!

Ready to see real results from fellow General Contractors?

→ Step 1: Join our FREE Digital Dominance Club for Remodeling Contractors

→ Step 2: Follow us on Instagram

→ Step 3: Schedule a 1:1 call with Rathna now!

Let's rock your remodeling journey! 🛠️💰

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:13.108)
Welcome everyone to the Remodeler Digital Playbook podcast. Today I am excited to have Zett Quinn from Quality Craftsmen. We are in for a treat to learn about his story of how he got into the home improvement industry and how he delivers with excellence on every job that he works on. So welcome Zett. I'm delighted to have you on the podcast.

Zett (00:40.824)
Thank much. sincerely appreciate the opportunity to meet with your audience. Thank you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (00:44.844)
Thank you. So let's start at the very beginning. What got you into the home improvement business? Do you have a college degree or just a passion for it or a background? Share with us how you got into this very special personal industry.

Zett (01:02.358)
Well, it's kind of a unique trip for me. It all started as a child. My parents were business owners and I grew up in the really around real estate and business. And I knew that I always wanted to be a business owner in college. Well, my first introduction to real estate was I was 15 years old. I bought my first house and flipped it and with my father's help, of course, and that was my entry. We've been doing my wife and I've been doing real estate for over 40 years in college.

I'm pursuing my college degrees. I've got a business degree, an engineering degree, but in college I also had to pay for college. So I bought into a failing cabinet shop. We turned it around and at 20 years old I had a million dollar cabinet business selling to Sears and Pennies and Spiegels. So that's kind of how we got started. Through our real estate acquisitions, we grew that pretty significantly and my friends and family

kept saying, hey, I like what I see you doing on these houses. Why don't you come do this for me? And so 30 years ago, that's what we did. We started in the renovation business. were small operation for about 20 years. And then the last 10 years, we decided we wanted to grow it. Our boys are a part of our company. And we are second generation now. And we wanted to have something that we could have a future with, both for our family and for my wife and I.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (02:09.804)
Wow.

Zett (02:33.186)
And so we decided to specialize and we went into the kitchen bath section and we really are focusing on that. And now we're ranked number 80 in the country. So we're doing pretty good. We're growing, but it's been a fun ride. It's kind of like riding a wild bucking bronco.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (02:55.061)
Well, isn't that true of business and entrepreneurship? So what were some of the hardships you faced initially and at what point in time did you make a decision saying that let's just grow this, let's make it a legacy brand, build something meaningful for our family and kids? So what was the turning point and what were the challenges that you faced initially?

Zett (02:55.854)
It's always constant change.

Zett (03:15.438)
That was really about 10 years ago for us. We were running along at about $2, $2.5 million in sales, and that was about as big as I knew how to get it by myself. But we were really a mom and pop shop for a very long time. But we also knew that if we wanted to grow it, I needed some help. So we brought in some professional assistants. We got a professional general manager and sales manager. We actually made him a partner at

a little bit into the growth of the company. And we've developed a team. We have grown from a three-person operation to now we've got over 100 employees and we've got about a staff of 250 techs that are out doing the work. So we feed a lot of people every week. It's big responsibility. Amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. So you said kitchen and bathroom. Yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (04:08.024)
Amazing, congratulations. So you sit kitchen and bathroom and you focus primarily on cabinets and refacing or do you also do minor remodels?

Zett (04:18.391)
We primarily focus on the bathroom space. The wet space only is our primary focus. But we also do full bathroom renovations and that includes kitchen refacing. So when we're going into the kitchen space we're not pulling and replacing cabinets. Although, you know, I'm a licensed general contractor and we've done that for years but that's really not the focus of what we're trying to do. Our focus is

going in on a much more affordable program, helping the customer get something new and beautiful with lifetime warranty, but save a ton of money. So it's been a good mix. Amazing. So are you producing the cabinets or are you a specific brand that you're partnering with? We've got multiple manufacturers in the US. One of our unique selling positions is that we are really focused on US made products.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (04:57.472)
Amazing. So are you producing the cabinets or are you using a specific brand that you're partnered with that you vouch for the quality?

Zett (05:14.312)
And so we have some phenomenal partners that we are the sole representation in the states of Florida and Georgia for their product lines and we really, they're first rate products and we want to make sure that we're installing them with first rate installers. Just today we had some five star reviews come through, one on our bath side, one on our kitchen side, and it's all about the team. know, it takes a lot to produce a job and then...

You want to make sure that the customer is happy on the back end. So it's a big effort. Absolutely. And it's such a personal investment here in people's homes and spaces and interacting with the family. It certainly is. It's different than what we've done over the last 20 years, 25 years with the general construction where projects took months and months and months. Most of our projects today are less than a week. You know, it's either one day, three days, five days.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (05:46.619)
Absolutely, and it's such a personal business.

Zett (06:12.872)
A project that takes more than a week is really a big project for us anymore.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:17.505)
So do you get busy now going into the holiday season? Are people trying to pretty up their spaces with families and guests coming in?

Zett (06:18.954)
So they've been busy now going into the holiday season, people trying to pretty up their spaces with families and guests coming in. Quite frankly, we really try to not be cyclical. We try to have a consistent, even production schedule and sales schedule that really comes in with the marketing side of it and how we generate the leads. But we really work on having a consistent sales basis each and every month. That way we don't have

I mean, we have a little bit of up and down and we can track it, but we really try to have a consistent, predictable model that we can work off of. Well, this might be a good point for me to ask you, what are the things that you're doing for marketing to generate the predictable leads pipeline and what is working for you really well? It is a multi-pronged approach. We are most definitely heavily involved in website development and SEO.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (06:55.458)
Well, this might be a good point for me to ask you what are the things that you're doing for marketing to generate that predictable leads pipeline and what is working for you really well.

Zett (07:17.09)
We are involved in all different types of marketing online, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. We have television advertising going, we do print advertising. We've installed over 50,000 projects. We've got a large book of business that we try and stay in contact with. So our referral base is extremely strong. But there's a huge emphasis on reaching out to the new customer, providing good content and information.

so that you can be the trusted source when people are calling in. They know that you, you know, the value that you bring. We do a tremendous amount with video testimonials for our customer base. We want to, you know, when you're walking into a brand new customer that found you online, how do you differentiate yourself from the masses? And you do that through testimonials with your customers. So we've got a huge inventory of video testimonials and we constantly build that.

and then online reviews. It cannot be overstated how important those are. So we have multiple processes where we're working on reviews, both on the front end with the sales team, during the process with the production team, and then at the end after the installation goes in, we really try to push the reviews. You have over 230 reviews on Google, right? Well, that's the Google reviews that are up there presently. We've actually got over a thousand.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:32.876)
You have over 230 reviews on Google, if I'm right.

Zett (08:43.894)
Those are the newest reviews. So once they get six months or a year old, they fall off. And it's a constant battle to keep that up, keep that number up. But that's a great number that you're at. And it looks like you have a concerted plan in place to collect those reviews. Absolutely.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:45.429)
I see.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (08:54.712)
Yes, but that's a great number that you're at. And so it looks like you have a concerted plan in place to collect those reviews. So do you ask the client at the correct time or do you have like a link that you email them? Like, what is your process to get to those thousands of reviews?

Zett (09:13.361)
So the answer is yes, yes and yes. It's all about systems and processes. have systems on the front end where we're requesting reviews through text messages, through email links, through verbal contact when we're speaking to the customers. At multiple points during the process and the progress of their project, we're asking for reviews.

We want to make sure that we incentivize them to help us out. it's very important. You just have to engage your customer multiple times. And we like to get multiple reviews. So you've got Facebook. You've got all the Howells. You've got Google. There are a ton of different places you can leave reviews. BBB. So you have to make sure that you're spreading out your reviews amongst all of those different platforms so that...

You're getting a positive footprint. I tell you, it is a huge job to try and keep on top of reviews.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (10:09.74)
Yeah, you're creating an omnipresence. You're just everywhere when people are reading about you. They can find you on Facebook and read your amazing reviews.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (10:23.126)
Yes. And so it's the ground team, the sales team, that are soliciting the reviews and making sure that the reviews hit your correct portals. When you say you incentivize, are you incentivizing your team or are you dropping off a bottle of wine to a homeowner for writing a review? What do do?

Zett (10:28.586)
And so it's the sales team that are soliciting the reviews and making sure that the reviews hit your correct quarters. When you say you incentivize, you incentivizing your team or are you dropping off a bottle of wine to a homeowner for writing a review? No, no, We do send cookies on the back end and that actually is a big deal. So we send cookies on the back end.

On the front end, we might give a discount for allowing us to put a yard sign in the yard and, you know, like us and follow us on Facebook. So there are just different ways to help the customer get engaged in the process. And it's a constant battle. What's your favorite kind of cookies that you're giving your customers? Well, I like the white chunk macadamia myself. White chocolate.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:13.748)
What's favorite brand of cookies that you're giving your customers?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:23.339)
Are you getting it from a specific vendor or you just shop all over?

Zett (11:24.626)
Are you getting it from a specific vendor or you just shop all over? No, no, We've, again, it's about systems and processes. We have a team that does that for us and fulfills those for us. yeah, it's just, there's a system and process for everything. Very cool. Sugar never fails, right? Delivering happiness. That's exactly correct. People really love the cookies. When you think about marketing, how do you arrive at the percent?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:40.197)
Very cool. Sugar never fails, right? Delivering happiness.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (11:47.668)
When you think about marketing, how do you arrive at a percent or how much money to invest into marketing? Do you look at your current revenue goals or you look into the future and say, these are the numbers we want to hit, therefore we should be willing to invest this much in marketing? Do you have a strategy?

Zett (11:54.182)
or how much money you invest into marketing. Do you look at your current revenue goals or you look into the future and say, these are the numbers we want to hit, therefore we should be willing to invest as much in marketing? Do you have a strategy? The answer is, again, multiple yeses. When I think back about marketing for the first 25 years of my business, if I spent $1,000 on marketing for the year, I would just think, my gosh, what am I doing?

How do I track it? And I've learned a lot in the last 10 years. We spend a tremendous amount on marketing. We spend about 12, 13 % of our gross revenue on marketing. But we're looking for a dollar for dollar return. So we know, and this is part of evening out that revenue stream, we know that if we're investing a certain amount, we should be receiving a certain amount based on our closing ratios with our sales team.

It all comes down to systems and the more that you put out, the more you can receive. You want to make sure that you're not outrunning your production capacity. So we are on target for about $3 million a month in revenue and we want to be able to produce about $3 million a month in installations. And for us right now, that's a good balance. We're growing, but we have to have controlled growth.

You know, COVID was just massive growth. And now we're really trying to make sure that we are not outrunning our, our punting capacity, that if we sell it, we can install it. We want to make sure we keep those five star reviews coming and we want to make sure we keep good, happy customers. So controlled growth is important. And another big thing for us is we run on a cash basis. So we pay as we go. We don't borrow money. We have a debt free company.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (13:23.168)
Yes.

Zett (13:51.302)
And that's been very important for us. That's how we got through multiple recessions in the past is not having any debt. You know, I saw a lot of builders and a lot of construction companies go out of business where they were over leveraged. And so we really try to be very careful with our dollars and we account for every penny that goes through the system. again, systems and processes. I never thought that that was important.

But as you get bigger, it's tremendously important. And even though I'm an engineer, I'm not a detail guy. I'm a big thinker guy. And so I'm always looking down the road, but I've got a team of extremely analytical people that help me build these systems and processes and then implement them. so it definitely takes a lot of teamwork and a lot of manpower and brainpower to...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (14:28.61)
Yeah.

Zett (14:49.87)
have a successful company and have a successful operation. We're trying real hard. know, every day is a new day. You you start at zero every single day.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (14:52.77)
Very cool, your revenue numbers are impressive and congratulations on your growth and your belief in sales and marketing. So, yes.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (15:07.274)
Yep, and then having those systems in place and having those standard operating procedures that you can take and train new people, because it's the people that help you build the business. So the more systems you put into place, the easier it becomes. So let's go.

Zett (15:08.61)
Yep. And then having those systems in place and having those standard operating procedures that you can take and train new people, because it's the people that help you build the business. So the more systems you put into place, the easier it becomes. That's exactly correct. You know, just two weeks ago, I had one of my production managers had a stroke. So I had to have the next guy in line be able to step up and fill his shoes immediately while he's in recovery.

getting better, he's back at work now. But you've got to have depth in your team and you've got to have processes so everybody knows where we are in the process, what's the next step in the process, how do you pick up the pieces and keep the ball moving so that the projects don't fall between the cracks and things don't get, they don't go south.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (15:57.186)
Right, yep. So let's pretend I'm a homeowner that's interested in your services. I find you online and I give you a call. What happens from there on? How does the process play for a brand new lead that comes into your universe? And what does it take for them to become a client where an estimate is generated? So let's go through that whole playbook.

Zett (16:00.59)
So let's pretend I'm a homeowner that's interested in your services. I find you online and I give you a call. What happens from there on? How does the process play for a brand new lead that comes into your universe? What does it take for them to become a client where an estimate is generated? So let's go through that whole playbook. Okay, sure. So there are multiple steps in that process. You would either do a form fill online or you would call into our call center.

We're unique in that we started immediately with having people dedicated to making phone calls. A big part of our front end operation, our front end sales, is our call center. So we've got a 25 person call center where we're making literally thousands of calls a day to set appointments for our sales team. So they vet the call. We want to make sure that we're asking qualifying questions, that you're a good prospect for what we do.

And when we send a salesperson out to your home, that it's going to be a good experience for you and it's a good fit. So they vet the call, they set the appointment, they call and they confirm the appointment. Then our salesperson shows up. We've got protocol in place to introduce that salesperson before they ever show up so the customer knows who's coming and everything's been confirmed. Salesperson does a presentation with them. We're a one stop close operation, 10 step close.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (17:24.756)
you

Zett (17:27.95)
We present, we've got a sales process that we follow. We've got a tracking system that monitors the salesperson in the sales call so we can listen to every word that's said during the sales presentation. I can tell how long he was on each screen of our presentation during the process so we can evaluate their performance. We write up the agreement and then that goes to our production. So they're gonna get a call from our team.

that introduces quality craftsmen and goes and they review the contract with the customer to make sure that the production team understands what it is we're being asked to produce. And then we, you know, once we pass the waiting period, we order the materials and once the materials come in and we house a couple of different manufacturers, we house inventory of products so we can get installations done very quickly.

But once that project is scheduled, we'll go out and install the product. And whether it takes one, two, to five or six days, we try to set an appropriate expectation and we want to make sure that we're beating that expectation with our timeline. And we've got protocol that the installation team follows during the process. So communication is a big deal. Cleanliness is a big deal. Attention to detail is a big deal.

We want the customer to have a great experience. So when we wrap up and we finish, we explain the utility and the function of the space to the customer, and we're clean up and we're gone. And then we do follow-ups. So we do follow-up calls to make sure that they were happy with the experience. And then we will push forward the funding. We'll have our accounts receivable team step in and collect and close out the agreements.

And then of course during the process we're asking for reviews. So that's how it works. Seamless. Excellent. Every point I thought through with detail. Well, I didn't come up with all this on my own. Again, it takes a team. There's a very famous book, Who Not How by Benjamin Hardy. And he says if you really want to grow your business, you don't keep thinking about how am I going to do this. You've got to find who is going to do it.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (19:24.268)
nice, seamless, excellent. Every point I thought through with detail. You mentioned text, of course. There's a very famous book, Who Not How, by Benjamin Hardy.

And he says, if you really want to grow your business, you don't keep thinking about how am I going to do this. You've got to find the who is going to do it. And then how are they going to do it? And then you document it and the who keeps working for you. So looks like you've cracked that. So congratulations.

Zett (19:50.838)
and then how are they going to do it and then you document them the who keeps working for you. So looks like you've cracked that. Well, and you've got to have the right people in the right seats. It's a big deal to have the right character of person with the right value system and the right skill set being responsible for and able to perform a certain job. And there's a lot of value in that. we've spent a tremendous amount of time hiring people and training them.

to do their jobs well, but we need to make sure that we've got the right personality type in each role to accomplish that task.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (20:27.553)
You briefly mentioned text marketing. So I'm curious to learn, do you use text marketing or text automations to follow up with your leads or to stay in touch with your clients?

Zett (20:29.016)
You briefly mentioned text marketing. I'm curious to learn, do you use text marketing or text automations to follow up with your... We We certainly do. speed to lead is part of our philosophy and we want to make sure that we are the first to contact the customer. So as soon as we are notified via a form fill online, within three seconds, the customer receives a text that says, hi, welcome to Quality Craftsmen.

We'll be reaching out to you. Here's an introduction of who we are. During the initial contact process, they'll receive, again, automated text through our system after we have met with them, or they're going to receive a before the salesperson goes out. They're going to receive text before the installers go out. So there are texts built into our processes that help us communicate with the customer because...

Many times, you know, folks don't want to answer the telephone, but they'll take a text.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (21:33.112)
So what tech stack do you have? What tools are you using to do the text marketing and stay in touch with the clients and all of that?

Zett (21:34.446)
So what tech snack do you have? What tools are you using to do the tech marketing and stay in touch with the clients and all that? We've got the texting protocol built into two or three of our different systems. And that's one of the big learning curves for me, because I'm not a tech guy, is how much technology runs behind the system and all these different programs that have to be integrated. Your CRM, your customer retention management tools.

how that has to tie into your sales tools and your production tools and your customer relationship tools. We probably run 30 different programs and the text profile is built into at least three or four of those different software packages and they're working independently and together and then they're all being logged in our CRM. So it's a... And what are you using for your CRM? Well, currently we use Acculinks which is not

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:24.748)
and what are you using for your CRM?

Zett (22:32.846)
a great fit, it does, we're making it work. But we are in the process of changing to one click contractor for our sales presentation. And we're in the process of changing over to I360 by the end of the year for our CRM. We've been working on that for two years now. Yeah, CRM's switches take forever. I can resonate. Do you use any AI tools? ChatGP or Gemini?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (22:51.308)
Yep, CRM switches take forever. I can resonate. Do you use any AI tools? Chat GPT or Gemini?

Zett (23:02.986)
So the answer is yes. On the marketing side, we use AI. We've used AI effectively with some of the video content. We've used AI with some of the texting content. We have used AI with automated chat online with our website. So it's amazing how technology, and again, that's a continuously evolving process. What I tell you today will...

It'll be different tomorrow. So it's constantly moving. I speak to some remodeling contractors and they worry about AI taking over their jobs. I don't think AI is ever going to drive a nail. Yes, there's one industry where you know you can't be replaced, it's remodeling. You just need your hands and your brains to get the work done. Yeah, this is an attention to detail business. This is a relationship business.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (23:32.685)
Yes. I speak to some remodeling contractors and they worry about AI taking over their jobs. And I tell them if there's one industry, yes, there's one industry where you can't be replaced, it's remodeling. You just need your hands and your brains to get the work done.

Zett (23:59.884)
The AI though is not something to be scared of. It's something to embrace. It is most definitely here. It's here to stay. And you can either be afraid of it like I was, or you can step up and say, okay, this is something I don't understand. Let me get a team in place to help me figure out how to use this to our advantage. And once you start working with it, it's not as scary. Right. Yeah. It actually simplifies your life and makes processes easier.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:23.038)
Right, yeah, it actually simplifies your life and makes processes easier. So.

Zett (24:30.134)
It certainly can help, yes. But it is overwhelming and daunting if you're not a techie person.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (24:35.518)
And you're new to it, yeah, for sure. So considering you're the CEO, what does your day look like? Because remodeling is such an intense business. I do have a lot of younger contractors that listen to this podcast. Do you have any time management hacks, any morning routines, anything that makes your day go by smoother over all your weeks or your months? So do you have any strategies that you apply?

Zett (25:02.83)
I think that I am probably like most every other business owner that I've ever met. have far fewer hours than I need in each day. I wear multiple hats. I keep my finger on the pulse of the business in that I still run sales appointments. But we have segmented our business in that we have one of my partners runs the sales department. So he runs the sales team.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (25:11.436)
Hahaha

Zett (25:31.734)
I run my own sales. I run the production department. I'm the engineer. I'm the general contractor. So I run our three different branches in their production. And then my wife, who is the accountant, she runs the administrative division. So we've got three legs to our company. And we all have our areas of responsibility. But both my partner, the sales manager,

And myself on the production side, we are out there in the field every day doing our thing with our teams. So my hands are dirty out on jobs, you know, inspecting the work, making sure that things are going in properly, running sales appointments, meeting with customers. We're extremely involved at the granular level so that we know what's going on in our company. What we don't do is try and manage from a distance.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (26:07.916)
Wow.

Zett (26:28.486)
Like I said, we've got multiple, we're in multiple cities, we're in multiple states. I just got back from our offices in Florida. I was down there, just the hurricane was coming in, so I got up early this morning and came back to Atlanta, where our home office is. But we're in Florida, Orlando and Jacksonville and Atlanta constantly. know, somebody is overseeing the operation, making sure that we've got an owner's...

eyes on the process and on the team almost every week. Well, I tell you, it carries a lot of weight when you can go in and call somebody out if they're feeding you a line of crap. If the salesman says, well, this is what I experienced. No, you don't. I'm out here doing this every single day.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:02.644)
and your team is used to seeing you in the field. They're not like, Zett is coming, the CEO is here. They're just like, hey, Zett, come on over.

Zett (27:27.352)
The same with your installation teams. have to understand the process. Most owners grow up in sales or they grow up in production and they're really good at one of those two things. We are blessed to have a team that's really great in those things. Everybody's got their area of expertise.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:52.746)
Nice.

Zett (27:53.646)
You just have to follow your strengths and then build your team around your weaknesses. Absolutely. So what do you do to keep morale and your company culture high? Because as the team grows, the fact that you're so hands on, that really helps your team understand where your heart is, right? That the client having a fantastic experience is why you're in this. Well, you know what? What we were just talking about is part of that company culture. So we really want to...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (27:56.648)
Absolutely. So what do you do to keep morale and company culture high? Because as the team grows, the fact that you're so hands on definitely helps your team understand where your heart is, right? That the client having a fantastic experience is why you're in this. But what do you do on a...

Zett (28:21.182)
know our team, even though we've got over 100 employees, I know their names. Once you get this big, there's turnover, people come and go. But we are very involved with people and their families. We wanna know their kids. We wanna know what kind of activities they're involved in. When our team members get sick, like we talked about the gentleman that had the stroke, we have other team members supporting them. We remember birthdays and anniversaries.

We want to have a family culture even as we get bigger, we want to maintain a family culture, but that takes being intentional. I know the names of all my salesmen, I know the names of all my contractors, I know the names of all my call center reps, my accounting reps.

Zett (29:14.229)
You've got to have that personal involvement and it's important for people to know that the owner knows me.

makes them feel very important and they are. Absolutely.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (29:22.894)
And when you remember names, they become human instead of just a number and people appreciate that for sure.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (29:31.376)
As you grew the business, did you have a favorite book or a mentor or an experience that helped you? Or if there's a younger contractor that's trying to get into the remodeling industry, what advice would you have?

Zett (29:32.942)
Well, I am a prolific reader. I've probably read a thousand different self-help books, business books. There are so many different authors out there.

I've read everything I can put my hands on. I do have some favorites, but those are really on the sales side. What I would encourage owners to do is to identify where you don't have strengths and read as much as you can possibly get your hands on about that area and then hire teams to help you cover those weaknesses so that if you've got a weak area, now you have a strong area.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (30:17.336)
Mm-hmm.

Zett (30:31.63)
and then design your company from the beginning. Design your company and have focus on your company with where you want to go. I, in the beginning, wanted to have a general construction focus and we did. I wish 30 years ago I had narrowed my focus like we've done in the last 10 years. my gosh, how our business would be different today. We wouldn't be at 30, we'd be at 200 million.

if I had started earlier. So focus, focus, focus and become extremely good in your area. Build your team around you and find out what you're good at and put your blinders on and don't take no for an answer. Don't take on debt. Grow in a controlled way. But having a business plan and following your business plan and making sure that you have work-life balance with your wife and your family.

is extremely important. Putting God first in everything that you do, extremely important. That's how we got it. Well, I like Zig Ziglar. I like Tom Hopkins, Jim Rohn. Those are all great sales guys.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (31:37.74)
Very cool. Would you be open to sharing a few book titles considering you're a prolific reader? Anything that's your favorite sales, it doesn't matter the topic.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (31:52.876)
Mm-hmm.

Zett (32:00.192)
I always, my father was a salesman, I always considered myself a salesman. And that was my strength. You my strength is also from the construction side, from the engineering side, being able to design it in my head and then build it. That's been extremely helpful for us. But I really like those guys. I think my other big piece is making sure that when you dream, you dream big.

You need to have a goal. There is no dream that's too big. If you can put your mind around it, you can achieve it. And it's just something that you really need to have goals, very smart goals, so that you can focus on them and get really, really defined in your processes. And get up every morning, pray, get up every morning, read your motivational statements, read your positive affirmations.

Attitude determines altitude. I mean, that's really the key to everything is having a positive attitude, can-do attitude. And there are going to be a lot of naysayers out there, most of the people around us. I don't talk to non-business owners about our business. They don't understand what it's like to make payroll, and they don't understand what it's like to feed hundreds of people every single week.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (33:01.016)
Mm-hmm.

Zett (33:29.767)
They don't understand the stress of that. So the more you can get in professional groups where you're meeting other business owners and find a mentor and somebody that you can work under, that is so extremely helpful. Find successful men through your church or through your professional groups and learn about business. Learn about how to work with employees. Learn about the philosophy of handling money.

You know, if you start making money, if you start making more money than your parents made, many times you'll set yourself up for success because you feel like you're not supposed to make more money than they do. So we self-sabotage ourselves. And so that goes back to those goals and making sure that your own philosophies are aligned with the goals that you set out for yourself.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:08.96)
It's a mindset.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:21.323)
Very true. Are you a member of the National Association of Remodelers or the National Kitchen and Bathroom Association? Do you engage with any of those?

Zett (34:23.662)
Are you a member of the National Association of Green Modellers and National Kitchen and Baths Association? Not the kitchen and bath. We are National Association of Remodeling Industry. We've got all the certifications through that. Certified Master Remodeler and all that. National Home Builders Association, yes. We're not doing a lot on the design side, so that's the reason I haven't gone to the Kitchen and Bath Association.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (34:49.282)
Kitchen and bathrooms.

Zett (34:53.592)
But growing up on the construction side, that's the route we went. So having those professional designations is another key piece. And they have networking opportunities, and that's really, again, where you get to meet other contractors, other business owners. You can begin associating with those folks in a professional way and develop relationships. And you have to be intentional. You have to find somebody that you want to model your business after. All the older guys want to help the younger guys.

There are no secrets out there. People are willing to share. Most people are willing to share their knowledge if they're asked. I go to these conferences and I'm part of the National Association of Remodelers as well. And one of the recent conversations that we had was that there aren't a lot of young people interested in the trades anymore. Do you think that's true? I do think that's true. I think we've pushed our kids too hard to go to college.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (35:32.35)
I go to these conferences and I'm part of the National Association of Remodellers as well and one of the recent conversations that we had was that there aren't a lot of young people interested in the trades anymore. Do you think that's true?

Zett (35:53.47)
And a lot of college kids don't think that it's cool to be a contractor. But they're really like our business. Do we do construction? The answer is yes. Am I a contractor? Really the answer is no. We're a sales and marketing company that happens to install bathrooms. So we're really a sales organization with a production leg. And so you have to really understand what business you're in.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (36:11.629)
Mm.

Zett (36:24.0)
I think one of the other big things that we've done is we've built really great relationships with our suppliers. Like next week we're going to be going out to Salt Lake City to meet with the top business owners that represent this particular product line from across the country. So we'll be meeting with 50 other business owners and it's a unique opportunity where you get one-on-one time with them so you can discuss the challenges that you're having and they can discuss their challenges.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (36:50.765)
Mm-hmm.

Zett (36:53.23)
And together you can come up with solutions because you're not in the same markets. You're in different states. So it's not a competitive thing. It's a relationship and it's a constructive deal that you help each other. It's really great. So the more of that you can be involved in, the better. So this is a vendor that's organizing an event to invite all of you It's called an owner's conference. Yeah. And it's just a tremendous opportunity to meet other business owners.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (37:07.432)
So this is a vendor that's organizing an event to invite all of you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (37:22.55)
Yes, absolutely. There's always so much energy and the correct vibe that you get from hanging out with fellow business owners who go through the same pains and joys. So when you're not working, what do you do for fun? You mentioned you have two boys in the business.

Zett (37:24.962)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I do. growing up and one of the reasons I got in this business, you asked me earlier why we got in this business, one of the reasons is I wanted to make sure that I had time with my family. My father was a workaholic and I probably

I know that I am that too, but I wanted to have balance. And so this business afforded me the opportunity to set my own schedule. And I was able to be a scout master for 20 years with both of my sons. So I have two Eagle Scouts. Two days ago, and you don't realize the impact that you have on other families during that process. Two days ago, got on Sunday night, I got to go to a 50th anniversary of our Cub Scout pack that both boys went through.

And I was the oldest scoutmaster that's still in the area. And it was neat to see that the program has been going for so long and touched so many kids. But it was also neat to see how many parents got touched through my wife and I's involvement in the program. You know, I took 18 boys across the line to help them get their Eagle Scout from first grade through 12th grade. And to see those boys now as men is a very powerful thing.

I've got engineers, I've got accountants, I've got top sales guys. I've got one kid that's on the Formula One racing team. He's an aeronautical engineer. But you make an impact on these kids and you make an impact on their families. And so for me, it was a way to give back, but it was also provided that balance so that I was able to take my kids camping a lot, probably more than they wanted to go camping. But...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (39:17.336)
Yeah.

Zett (39:21.876)
now that I'm out of that program, I still love going to the woods. So for me, being in the woods is a relaxing thing. I can turn off my phone, I can reconnect with God, and it helps me reset my mind. So that's very important for me. It's awesome.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (39:37.676)
those nature bats, you're just in between the trees and the greenery. What hats do your boys wear within your organization?

Zett (39:51.138)
within your organization? So, you know, we were talking earlier about all the kids going to college. Both my boys went to college. One decided that he wanted to, I would only pay for their school if they studied engineering or finance. So if they were going to be business owners, they needed to understand either the finance side of the business or they needed to understand the engineering side of the business. So my younger son decided he wanted to study finance. So he went to Georgia Tech.

Graduated with honors, super smart kid. He's now running my finance division. For 25 years, we never financed any jobs. And now being single focused in the kitchen and bath job business, we now finance probably 50 % of our jobs. So it's helped us grow. And again, that was me changing my philosophy because I'm an all cash guy. I was like, why would you borrow money to do anything? But the reality is most people aren't all cash people.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (40:50.412)
Yep.

Zett (40:51.054)
and they need to borrow money. So it's helped us write a lot of business by offering finance. So there's a whole business side of the business that he handles doing that. My other son did not like college. He's probably the smartest one in our family, but college was not for him. He could sit in the back of the class and do the calculus in his head and correct the teacher if he made a mistake, but he hated going to class. He wanted to work with his hands. So he's now running one of my production departments.

He's actually my number one production manager for the company, doing a phenomenal job. And he's running 20, 25 teams, installing close to 50 jobs a week. It's just incredible to see them mature and grow into those roles. It's a lot of fun to watch them. Do they live close by or do live in other cities? We've been very blessed. Again, this is one of the things, the joys of having your own business is...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:23.382)
Incredible.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (41:38.914)
Do they live close by or they live in other cities?

Zett (41:50.042)
you can pay your kids to stay close to you. So they work for us, they both do live in the same area. One works with my wife in the finance side, one works with me in the production side, even though we work in the same offices, we don't get to see each other all that much because I'm constantly on the road. But it is nice to be able to have family dinners periodically and have a close relationship with your children.

If my children moved to the other side of the country, that would break my heart. But again, the businesses allowed us to have the flexibility to, you know, if they, if they did decide that they wanted to go to California or some other state of long way away, we can go visit. That's, just the beauty of this business. So if there's somebody that's considering introducing financing to go from the cash to financing, what is it? you go make partnership with banks?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (42:36.344)
So if there's somebody that's considering introducing financing to go from the cash model to financing, what is it? Do you go make partnerships with banks? If you don't have a son with a finance degree and it's something that you'd like to implement, what would be kind of a quick segue to go from a cash-based model to being able to provide financing? Because it is a value-added service to your clients.

Zett (42:47.596)
you know, if you don't have a, you know, a son with a finance degree and it's something that you'd like to implement, what would be kind of a quick segue to go from a cash-based model to be able to provide financing? Because it is a value-added service. It most definitely is. That's a great question. There are so many financial institutions that want to finance construction projects.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:11.776)
I see.

Zett (43:13.938)
Really the first step is having your personal financial house in order. The banks have to underrate you as a contractor before they will decide to take you on as a client. If your financial house is not in order, you will not be getting financing. So basically you're getting a line of credit from these different lenders to finance the jobs. Once the jobs are done and signed for, then they pay you off.

You get your compensation and the customers repaying their loan. But they're underwriting you as a company and there are so many lenders out there that want to work with construction companies, but they also, they're very careful with who they choose to work with.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (43:49.376)
I see.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (44:02.294)
And then they're doing all the grunt work of running the background check on the homeowner, making sure that they can get the right interest rate and the dollar amount and so forth. The bank's doing all of the approval process.

Zett (44:11.854)
the dollar amount and so forth, the banks doing all of the approval process. Yes, they are. But that's part of the sales process. Every bank has got a funding corridor or funding app that they use. are just now coming on the market certain services that you can run through an application and it might hit six different banks. And so instead of doing six different loan applications with different banks,

you're not hitting the people's credit six different times, you're doing it one time. that, again, that's an AI technology that's coming out and it's only come out in the last 90 days. So AI is constantly changing. The market, the technology is constantly changing. So it is, it's just, it's important to stay on top of the current trends. Going to builder conferences, going to sales conferences, you get to meet these vendors. And that really would be the first step.

to introduce yourself to the vendors is going through these different conferences that you can go to. So then it actually opens up the opportunity for the homeowner to get the funding. If there's six banks that are open to looking at their credit record and grant them a suitable interest rate. So that's fascinating how AI is being put to work in the financial world. Well, you have a lot to consider when you talk about financing. You've got...

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:17.176)
So then it actually opens up the opportunity for the homeowner to get the funding if there's six banks that are open to looking at their credit record and grant them a suitable interest rate. So that's fascinating how AI is being put to work in the financial world.

Zett (45:39.57)
Are there going to be any discount points that you're paying on the front end, depending upon their credit rating? There's a huge rejection rate going on right now with credit. So credit has gotten a lot tighter. Underwriting guidelines have gotten a lot tighter. So it is very, it's a very competitive market. And it's very normal to have to submit an application to two, three, four different lenders.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (45:58.54)
Mm-hmm.

Zett (46:08.718)
to get someone approved in today's market. What is your minimum project value? We try to stay around $10,000 or more. Our average project is about $14,500. We take projects. We just finished a kitchen and bath project that was $150,000. With the majority of our projects, 90 % of our projects are in that $14,500 range. So a little bit below or a little bit above.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (46:10.998)
What is your minimum project value?

Zett (46:39.359)
We do some pro bono work in each market every year. So when we find a really a need situation where you've got a retiree or a veteran that is disabled and they just they don't have the income, but they've got a huge need, we might do a pro bono project for them. And well, it's our way of giving back. So you can't just take, take, take, you've got to reinvest.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (46:57.528)
How fantastic.

Zett (47:07.636)
in the community and so that's one way that we are able to get back. We do a lot with veterans.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (47:13.464)
Very cool. Considering you've been in the remodeling business for so many years, and we've all been through the pandemic where there was a remodeling boom and then things kind of tapered off, what are you predicting for the next five years or 2025? What do you see as coming for the remodeling industry?

Zett (47:16.174)
Considering you've been in the remodeling business for so many years, and we've all been through the pandemic, where there was a remodeling boom, and then things kind of tapered off, what are you predicting for the next five years, or 2025, what do you see as coming for the remodeling industry? Truthfully, I'm optimistic, but I want to be realistic at the same time. It depends on who wins the election next month. The economy will either stay on the same path that it's on.

or it will go up. So I obviously lean one way, but I want to be realistic about if things don't change, we need to be prepared. So how do we continue to succeed in this market? Even if things get worse, what do we do? So again, having no debt going into a recession is an extremely important piece. Having your processes in place.

so that you can control your costs, so that when you get a job, we're writing clean jobs that we can produce. We're very much about staying within our lane and making sure that we're able to produce what has been sold to the customer, but making sure that the salesperson doesn't go out and design something so big that it just becomes an unprofitable project. We find that the smaller projects,

are a lot more profitable than the big projects. Do you feel with the upcoming elections projects have slowed down or the momentum is still the same? No, no, no. They've most definitely slowed down and the credit ratings of the... the credit rating in the market has tightened up. So there's been a... inflation is high, costs are higher. It's harder to sell a deal today than it was yesterday. Credit is harder to get today than it was yesterday.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (48:46.114)
Do you feel with the upcoming elections projects have slowed down or the momentum is still the same?

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:00.108)
Yes.

Zett (49:14.04)
So we have to be prepared for those things and we have to have processes in place to help us do that. Part of our system is let's take this grand vision. Everybody has this pie in the sky. I want to do this gigantic project, know, champagne taste, but I've got a beer budget. So how do you make the two come together? And many times it's focusing on that beer budget. Let's focus on what we do best. Let us help you with that. And then...

You know, we'll do these things in stages. do too. Is this the first time you're on a podcast? This is the first time that I'm on a podcast. Yes. I have done other television shows for construction industry years and years and years ago, over 20 years ago.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (49:44.885)
I truly hope 2025 is on the upswing and as business owners we all rise. So fingers crossed. Is this the first time you're on a podcast?

Zett (50:12.546)
We were on total home makeover. So we've done television before. I had a television program for six months about construction. So I've been around the TV and the internet for a minute. But yes, this is my first podcast and I've enjoyed it. So thank you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (50:29.494)
Awesome, yeah, that's one of the things I was gonna ask you, like what did you think about the conversation, the questioning cadence? Because I have contractors that are interested in being on the podcast and they say, I've never been on a podcast and I'm like, it's just a fun conversation, come on over, let's hang out.

Zett (50:45.643)
No, you've made it very easy. I appreciate the opportunity to share with other people. know, many of the people that will listen to this podcast, I may never meet, but my door is certainly open. If there's a contractor out there that is in California or Minnesota and needs some help, I am happy to try and assist them. Mentorship is a big deal. I know that other men have invested in me to try and answer questions for me along the way.

And I want to make sure that I can pass it along and do the same. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. I've enjoyed it very much. you again. Thank you.

Rathna Ramakrishnan (51:15.518)
Amazing. Thank you so much. It was a delight. Likewise, it was a delight hanging out with you. Thank you again.